[B-Greek] [B-GREEK] GAL 2:2 DOKOUSIN

Mark Lightman lightmanmark at yahoo.com
Fri Jan 29 07:46:35 EST 2010


 Christophe Rico  wrote:


<I have always been surprised by the word that
 Paul uses in that letter in
order to describe his first meeting with Peter
 : hISTORHSAI. (Gal 1,18),
which is a hapax legomenon in the NT.
This the commentary of that verse by John Chrysostom :
"Paul says that he went up to Jerusalem in order to
 hISTORHSAI Peter, that
is, not only to see him but also to hISTORHSAI him
. This is the very word
used by people who stare at huge and magnificent
 cities. This why Paul
thought it worth while going up to Jerusalem for
 the unique purpose of
seeing this man."
You will find this remark in his commentary
 on the letter to the Galatians.
I think it can shed a light upon the way
 that Paul sees Peter and the other DOKOUNTES.>

 
HI, Christophe,
 
This is a cool comment and I did not know that about
the word hISTORHSAI, but what Chrysostom does not
tell you here is that Paul extended his visit/inquiry with Peter
to only fifteen days.  I've always thought this was a 
good natured joke at Peter's expense.  Paul, already
having received his revelations directly from the risen
Christ in Arabia, needed no more than a fortnight to
learn everything he needed to know from the mere human
Jerusalem authorities.  I think a better word than
hISTORHSAI to show what Paul thought of Peter
and the other DOKOUNTES is KATEGNWSMENOS
in Gal 2:11: "I got up in Peter's face, because he was
clearly wrong."

But I admit that what I think Paul thought 
about Peter and the pillars is more based on
my theological biases than on anything in the
Greek text.
 
(Well, that's not entirely true.  If you read 2 Cor. in
the Greek, you are struck by how Paul's syntax, 
normally controlled and sober, is driven a little
crazy by the intensity of his opposition to
the UPERLIAN apostles (11:5) who are
"super" in the same way as the
pillars, according to human DOXA only.)
I'm not sure how well this comes
across in the English (or the French)
but you can't miss in the Greek,
don't you think?)
 
Mark L
Φωσφορος 



2010/1/28 George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>

>   Of course their reputation is not doubtful.  The point which Paul seems
> to raise is whether God recognizes their opinions or not.  This could not be
> raised as an issue were they not (humanly) recognized.
>
>
>
> george
> gfsomsel
>
>
> … search for truth, hear truth,
> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
> defend the truth till death.
>
>
> - Jan Hus
> _________
>
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* Christophe Rico <ricochristophe at gmail.com>
> *To:* George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
> *Cc:* Bob Schut <rschut at sbcglobal.net>; B-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> >
> *Sent:* Thu, January 28, 2010 4:37:31 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [B-Greek] [B-GREEK] GAL 2:2 DOKOUSIN
>
>  The BDAG (3rd edition, 2000, p.255), sub verbo DOKEW, gives many
> examples, both classical and koinè, of the phrases hOI DOKOUNTES and hOI
> DOKOUNTES EINAI TI, where it means simply  "those who are influential",
> "those who are recognized as being important". In those non biblical
> examples, that influence or authority is not doubtful but legitimate and
> recognized. We can also compare in Mk 10,42  hOI DOKOUNTES ARCHEIN, "those
> who are recognized to be rulers", the kings or emperors. In a somehow
> similar way, we say in French "les notables" (etymologically : "those
> who have to be taken into consideration") to talk about people who are
> prominent in society.
>
> Christophe
>
>
> 2010/1/28 George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
>
>> It would seem to me that Paul here speaks of those of repute (δοκ* DOK) on
>> the one hand, but on the other he contrasts reputation with God's judgment
>> (πρόσωπον[ὁ]θεὸς ἀνθρώπου οὐ λαμβάνει  PROSWPON [hO QEOS ANQRWPOU OU
>> LAMBANEI).  The latter seems to reflect the ingratiating comment of the
>> spies sent from the priests in Lk 20.21 when they said, καὶ ἐπηρώτησαν αὐτὸν
>> λέγοντες·διδάσκαλε, οἴδαμεν ὅτι ὀρθῶς λέγεις καὶ διδάσκεις καὶ οὐ λαμβάνεις
>> πρόσωπον, ἀλλʼ ἐπʼ ἀληθείας τὴν ὁδὸν τοῦ θεοῦ διδάσκεις· "DIDASKALE, OIDAMEN
>> hOTI ORQWS LEGES KAI DIDASKEIS KAI OU LAMBANEIS PROSWPON, ALL' EP' ALHQEIAS
>> THN hODON TOU QEOU DIDASKEIS"
>>
>> george
>> gfsomsel
>>
>>
>> … search for truth, hear truth,
>> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
>> defend the truth till death.
>>
>>
>> - Jan Hus
>> _________
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: Bob Schut <rschut at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: B-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Sent: Wed, January 27, 2010 8:27:46 PM
>> Subject: [B-Greek] [B-GREEK] GAL 2:2 DOKOUSIN
>>
>>
>> ἀπὸ δὲ τῶν δοκούντων εἶναί τι ὁποῖοί ποτε ἦσαν οὐδέν μοι διαφέρει:
>> πρόσωπον
>> [ὁ] θεὸς ἀνθρώπου οὐ λαμβάνει ἐμοὶ γὰρ οἱ δοκοῦντες οὐδὲν προσανέθεντο,
>>
>> APO DE TWN DOKOUNTWN EINAI TI hOPOIOI POTE HSAN OUDEN MOI DIAFEREI:
>> PROSWPON
>> [hO] QEOS ANQRWPOU OU LAMBANEI EMOI GAR hOI DOKOUNTES OUDEN PROSANEQENTO,
>>
>> I am writing a Bible study on Galatians and have read several different
>> translations of Gal 2:2-6.  The crucial words that set the tone are DOKOUSIN
>> and DOKOUNTES both being derived from DOKEW: be influential, be recognized
>> as being something, have a reputation (BDAG).  Yet, I read several
>> translations taking this to introduce "doubtful" influence and authority.
>> This leads one to believe that Paul is really not convinced of them being
>> pillars of the church or having any more authority than anyone else.
>> Compare NET, NKJV, NRSV, NASB.
>>
>> I accept that this might be a subtle distinction that may only exist in
>> the English or maybe only in the mind of the translator and not in the
>> Greek; but I was hoping that someone who has a wider knowledge of the usage
>> of this word can shed some light on the choices and shadows of meaning.
>>
>> EURISKW
>> ευρισκω
>>
>> Bob Schut
>> Sacramento, CA
>>
>>
>> ---
>> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
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>> XAIRW B-Greekers
>> χαιρω
>>
>> I found a copy of my question in the archives that was asked back in 2000
>> by another individual, but he did not get any responses.  I tend to be
>> pretty optimistic so I'm hoping for a better result.
>>
>> GAL 2:2
>> ANEBHN DE KATA APOKALUYIN: KAI ANEQEMHN AUTOIS TO EUAGGELION hO KHRUSSW EN
>> TOIS EQNESIN, KAT' IDIAN DE TOIS DOKOUSIN, MH PWS EIS KENON TREXW H EDRAMON.
>>
>> Gal 2:2
>> ἀνέβην δὲ κατὰ ἀποκάλυψιν: καὶ ἀνεθέμην αὐτοῖς τὸ εὐαγγέλιον ὃ κηρύσσω ἐν
>> τοῖς ἔθνεσιν, κατ' ἰδίαν δὲ τοῖς δοκοῦσιν, μή πως εἰς κενὸν τρέχω ἢ ἔδραμον.
>>
>>
>>
>>  ---
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>>
>
>
>
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