[B-Greek] How to understand Rev 11:8]

Mark Lightman lightmanmark at yahoo.com
Mon Jun 14 17:19:19 EDT 2010


If you mean can πνευματικῶς modify ἐσταυρώθη, then no way; too many words
intervene and there is no reason to think that John would have meant any thing like this.

If this is not what you (or Beale) means, what do you mean.
  Mark L 



FWSFOROS MARKOS 




________________________________
From: Elizabeth Kline <kline_dekooning at earthlink.net>
To: o.e.nordgreen at ilos.uio.no
Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 12:11:32 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] How to understand Rev 11:8]


On Jun 14, 2010, at 5:29 AM, o.e.nordgreen at ilos.uio.no wrote:

> A conventional translation of Rev 11:8 would be:
> 
>>> Their corpses will lie in the main street of the great city, which
> spiritually is called "Sodom" and "Egypt," where their lord was
> crucified. <<
> 
> I was wondering if the clause "where their lord was crucified" could be
> taken as being dependent of "spiritually". This has been suggested by Greg
> Beale (in his commentary).
> 


Rev. 11:7 Καὶ ὅταν τελέσωσιν τὴν μαρτυρίαν αὐτῶν, τὸ θηρίον τὸ ἀναβαῖνον ἐκ τῆς ἀβύσσου ποιήσει μετ᾿ αὐτῶν πόλεμον καὶ νικήσει αὐτοὺς καὶ ἀποκτενεῖ αὐτούς.  8 καὶ τὸ πτῶμα αὐτῶν ἐπὶ τῆς πλατείας τῆς πόλεως τῆς μεγάλης, ἥτις καλεῖται πνευματικῶς Σόδομα καὶ Αἴγυπτος, ὅπου καὶ ὁ κύριος αὐτῶν ἐσταυρώθη.

Rev. 11:7 KAI hOTAN TELESWSIN THN MARTURIAN AUTWN, TO QHRION TO ANABAINON EK THS ABUSSOU POIHSEI MET᾿ AUTWN POLEMON KAI NIKHSEI AUTOUS KAI APOKTENEI AUTOUS.  8 KAI TO PTWMA AUTWN EPI THS PLATEIAS THS POLEWS THS MEGALHS, hHTIS KALEITAI PNEUMATIKWS SODOMA KAI AIGUPTOS, hOPOU KAI hO KURIOS AUTWN ESTAURWQH.

G.Beale does appear to say something like that (p.592[1]).  The main point, that THS POLEWS THS MEGALHS is not a literal city, is easier to accept than Beale's claim that having  the clause beginning with hOPOU refer back to the beginning of v 8 is "awkward"[1].  I don't see anything awkward about it. Perhaps I have been reading too much Sophocles. I see nothing the least bit difficult about hOPOU ... connecting back across a parenthetical  hHTIS KALEITAI PNEUMATIKWS SODOMA KAI AIGUPTOS. On the other hand I have some reservations about having hOPOU ... limit (modify) the adverb PNEUMATIKWS. That seems to me a strange notion. 

Perhaps I am misreading Beale. I am willing to listen to other explanations of what he is saying re: hOPOU & PNEUMATIKWS.  

Elizabeth Kline


[1] Google search string: "referring back to the beginning of v 8"

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