[B-Greek] Is a Phrasal Interlinear a useful idea?
George F Somsel
gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Tue Jun 22 11:16:14 EDT 2010
While your proposal would certainly be an improvement over an interlinear where all text would be glossed, I am basically opposed to any system which supplies one-word glosses for the Greek text just as I am opposed to lexicons which provide nothing more than an listing of glosses which might be applicable for a particular word (such as Barclay Newman). If one's only object is to pick and choose from a list of potential meanings rather willy-nilly according to one's own preference then one might as well resort to an English (or other language) translation since he is not truly interacting with the Greek. One should rather consult a full-blown lexicon which details the various glosses ACCOMPANIED BY A LISTING OF ITS USES. It is only by examining how a word is used with other words including idioms and in various genres that it is possible to arrive at a more complete understanding of the text.
george
gfsomsel
… search for truth, hear truth,
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
defend the truth till death.
- Jan Hus
_________
________________________________
From: Nigel Chapman <nigel at chapman.id.au>
To: B Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tue, June 22, 2010 7:59:33 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Is a Phrasal Interlinear a useful idea?
George wrote:
> Any interlinear is NOT a useful idea. An interlinear inherently
> depresses the learning of the language. If you must have a translation
> handy, put it under your Greek text. It should not assault your eyes
> when reading Greek.
I'm increasingly viewing a phrase-based interlinear as the optimal form
for an *English*, open-source translation (or polyglot). I agree the Greek
should be read on it's own if you're aiming to interact with the language
at all meaningfully in the long term, and my site is built to encourage
precisely this.
But I am considering, based on your comment, an option to show/hide the
English or the Greek parts at any time. But this opens other ideas: it
would be equally possible to produce an automated polyglot for an
arbitrary collection of languages, once glosses were entered for them.
But a still better idea can be borrowed from another Aussie IT/Greek/Geek
named James Tauber of MorphGNT fame...
Suppose that a text is organized into translated fragments that can be
independently graded for their reading difficulty. Then, by moving a
slider, increasing proportions of a web document can be switched from a
known to an unknown language, as the reader's proficiency in the target
language grows. Initially, only easy Greek is in Greek; the rest is
English; Penultimately, only the most difficult expressions remain in
English. That's one of the aims a phrasal interlinear would make possible.
Here's James' video on that subject -- http://jtauber.com/graded_reader/
I'm curious as to whether this put us essentially on the same page in
terms of educational aims, the general infernality of standard
interlinears being a given?
Nigel.
On Sun, June 20, 2010 11:28 pm, George F Somsel wrote:
> Any interlinear is NOT a useful idea. An interlinear inherently
> depresses the learning of the language. If you must have a translation
> handy, put it under your Greek text. It should not assault your eyes
> when reading Greek.
> Â george
> gfsomsel
>
>
> … search for truth, hear truth,
> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
> defend the truth till death.
>
>
> - Jan Hus
> _________
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Nigel Chapman <nigel at chapman.id.au>
> To: B Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Sun, June 20, 2010 4:09:52 AM
> Subject: [B-Greek] Is a Phrasal Interlinear a useful idea?
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've been tinkering with the idea of a 'phrasal interlinear' for a while;
> translating at the ideas level, while still (like an interlinear), keeping
> the words in the same order, to produce a set of glosses.
>
> This can't easily be illustrated in a text email, so here are some I
> prepared earlier...
>
> http://jesus.com.au/comment/reference/php+1
>
> (I note that my translation skills may not be the best you'll see; this is
> more an illustration than a public service at present.)
>
>
> BENEFITS
>
> - More contextual and grammatical than a normal interlinear.
>
> - When entered in a computer system, this creates a body of equivalent
> expressions, which can be used in quizzes and drills, or to illustrate the
> usage of words.
>
> - Easy to read and edit via Wiki-style formatting.
>
>
> DRAWBACKS
>
> - Still artificial, since you'll often want to move a word more than 5-6
> places for a smooth English translation, and glossing doesn't easily
> accommodate this. I've considered other syntaxes for marking up arbitrary
> word connections, but they add complexity; -- see:
>
> http://jesus.com.au/help/formatting (skim down to 'TRANSLATION')
>
>
> Q. Are there benefits and drawbacks that I haven't thought of?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Nigel Chapman, Sydney AU
>
> Home: http://chapman.id.au
> Face: http://facebook.com/nigel.chapman
> Msgs: nigelchapman-au (Skype)
>
> "When eras die their legacies are left to
> strange police." -- Clarence Day
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
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>
>
>
>
--
Nigel Chapman, Sydney AU
Home: http://chapman.id.au
Face: http://facebook.com/nigel.chapman
Msgs: nigelchapman-au (Skype)
"When eras die their legacies are left to
strange police." -- Clarence Day
---
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