[B-Greek] Form versus Meaning (Was Meaning of EIS in Galatians 6:8

Mark Lightman lightmanmark at yahoo.com
Tue Jun 29 22:19:05 EDT 2010


Adrian posited:

<For this to be valid, it would be necessary to translate EIS as 'by means of' - I had a quick 
look at BDAG this morning, and although there is a very broad scope for this word, I am not
convinced that it will stretch to 'by means of' or 'with the agent of' etc

Is EIS ever used in this way in Greek?>

Hi, Adrian,

You have done an excellent job in establishing what
this verse means.  Maybe you have done so by bypassing a metaphor that does not work too well,
but regardless, what you say here

 <the one who sows by means of the Spirit (i.e. trying to be justified by faith) 
....will reap eternal life>

is exactly what the verse means, and by "exactly"
I mean "approximately."  On the other hand, I think
what George and Barry and Iver have done is what I
like to call "the original sin of B-Greek."  They have allowed form to get in the way of meaning.  I am well
aware that EIS plus the accusative does not normally
indicate agency, and maybe it never does, but yes, here
meaning can stretch that far.  I have been reading Homer a lot and I have noticed something over and over again that I cannot yet figure out how to articulate, but your question reminds me of it.   MEANING TRUMPS  FORM
in Greek.  Meaning can absorb, can take over,
re-write and cut through form.  Once you establish
the meaning of a Greek phrase, the form of the 
Greek phrase no longer matters.  Let me say that
again.  ONCE YOU ESTABLISH THE MEANING OF A
GREEK PHRASE, THE FORM OF A GREEK PHRASE NO
LONGER MATTERS.  I wish I could site
examples from Homer but I always forget to write them
down when I come across them.  I am not saying that
Homer uses EIS plus the accusative to indiciate agency--I don't know if he does or does not.  I am saying that
he COULD, if he wanted to, because meaning is to
form what Napoleon was to Belgium.  I don't know if
Napoleon ever conquered Belgium or not.  But he could
have, if he wanted to.

<Is EIS ever used in this way in Greek?>

I don't know.  It's the wrong question, somehow.
A question like this somehow suggests that Form
limits Meaning.  You got the meaning right.
The other part, the form part, is good, but it ought not
to be our war. 


 Mark L 



FWSFOROS MARKOS 




________________________________
From: "bgreek at global4.freeserve.co.uk" <bgreek at global4.freeserve.co.uk>
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 6:26:59 AM
Subject: [B-Greek] Meaning of EIS in Galatians 6:8

When Paul writes:

OTI hO SPEIRWN EIS THN SARKA hEAUTOU EK THS SARKOS QERISEI FQORAN 
hO DE SPEIRWN EIS TO PNEUMA EK TOU PNEUMATOS QERISEI ZWHN AIWNION

SPEIRWN EIS is translated in most Bibles something like 'sows to'.

But apart from this use in the Bible, I would not generally use the expression
'sows to' in any other context, so I don't really know what this means.

What would make more sense to me, given the context of the rest of the letter would be if this 
could be translated:

For the one who sows by means of the flesh (i.e. trying to be justified by the law).....
will reap destruction.... the one who sows by means of the Spirit (i.e. trying to be justified by faith) 
....will reap eternal life

For this to be valid, it would be necessary to translate EIS as 'by means of' - I had a quick 
look at BDAG this morning, and although there is a very broad scope for this word, I am not
convinced that it will stretch to 'by means of' or 'with the agent of' etc

Is EIS ever used in this way in Greek?

Many thanks

Adrian Clark

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