[B-Greek] Joel 3:1-2 (LXX) & Acts 2:17-18 - Why EKCEW APO TOUPNEUMATOS MOU instead of EKCEW TO PNEUMA MOU?

Blue Meeksbay bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com
Mon May 10 13:39:06 EDT 2010


THi DEXIAi OUN TOU QEOU hUYWQEIS, THN TE EPAGGELIAN TOU PNEUMATOS TOU hAGIOU LABWN PARA TOU PATROS, EXECEEN TOUTO hO hUMEIS [KAI] BLEPETE KAI AKOUETE.Act 2:33 
 
KAI EXESTHSAN hOI EK PERITOMHS PISTOI hOSOI SUNHLQAN TWi PETRWi, hOTI KAI EPI TA EQNH hH DWREA TOU hAGIOU PNEUMATOS EKKECUTAI•  Act 10:45 
 
MHTI TO hUDWR DUNATAI KWLUSAI TIS TOU MH BAPTISQHNAI TOUTOUS, hOITINES TO PNEUMA TO hAGION ELABON hWS KAI hHMEIS;  Act 10:47 
 
What is interesting is that it seems we have a dual understanding of this phenomenon. Apart from the question concerning the understanding of LXX translators, and/or the underlying Hebrew text, it is interesting how Luke understood APOTOU PNEUMATOS.  He does not say in verse Acts 2:33 *he poured out the Spirit,* but he poured out *TOUTO,* which you both see and hear.  This seems to go along with part of what Doug Post suggested.  The *this* would be the ability to prophesy, in this case, through the medium of tongues. 
 
Nevertheless, when Luke writes about the account of Peter and Cornelius in Acts 10:45, he has Peter identifying the gift of the Spirit poured out upon the Gentiles, (like was done to them at Pentecost, vs. 47), to be none other than the Spirit Himself and not something *from* or *of* the Spirit.
  
It seems there is something else going on in this concept that we do not fully understand.
 
I wonder if the imagery of fire (Acts. 2:3) taken from the whole without diminution, contributes anything to the idea.
 
Regards,
Blue Harris
 




________________________________
From: Eric S. Weiss <papaweiss1 at yahoo.com>
To: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon at historian.net>; b-greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Mon, May 10, 2010 9:55:29 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Joel 3:1-2 (LXX) & Acts 2:17-18 - Why EKCEW APO TOUPNEUMATOS MOU instead of EKCEW TO PNEUMA MOU?

I don't think Peter is doing much more with these verses from Joel than quoting 
them to explain that what happened at Pentecost was its fulfillment. I.e., "This 
is that...." 

I.e., the reason Peter says APO TOU PNEUMATOS MOU instead of TO 
PNEUMA MOU is because that's how Joel 3:1-2 reads in his and his hearers' 
Bible, the LXX.

(Or, if one is so inclined, that's how Joel 3:1-2 reads in Luke's Bible so when 
he records Peter's quotation of Joel 3 on the day of Pentecost, he transcribes 
what LXX Joel 3:1-2 says.)

And why would Christian editors change a Septuagintal TO PNEUMA MOU 
(which is a literal translation of the Hebrew) to APO TOU PNEUMATOS MOU 
(assuming we have any evidence of such a textual variant in Joel 3:1-2), esp. 
since other passages in Acts indicate that the Spirit, not "part" of the Spirit, 
fell upon or filled or was received by people?
 
- - -
Eric S. Weiss 



----- Original Message ----
From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon at historian.net>
To: Eric S. Weiss <papaweiss1 at yahoo.com>; b-greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Mon, May 10, 2010 11:40:44 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Joel 3:1-2 (LXX) & Acts 2:17-18 - Why EKCEW APO TOUPNEUMATOS MOU instead of EKCEW TO PNEUMA MOU?

The Hebrew, even in the DSS, is wehaya ahary-ken eshepok et-ruhy, "and it 
shall come to pass afterward I will pour out my spirit.." and ET is a marker 
that signifies "spirit" is an accusative case.  The Acts version has Peter 
saying, instead of "afterward," that  "In the last days.." and "I will pour 
out OF MY SPIRIT.." (genitive case) indicating that of the whole spirit, 
only part is poured out.
I am always on the look-out for Christian editing in the LXX since the 
Christians were essentially the curators of the LXX and this particular 
prophecy is important to Christians regarding Pentacost.  Does the LXX 
translation derive from Acts rather than the reverse?

Jack Kilmon


      

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