[B-Greek] 1 Thess 4:11 φιλοτιμεῖσθαι ἡσυχάζειν

Rick Carlton rickcarlton at hotmail.com
Wed Nov 3 05:35:51 EDT 2010


Any suggestions for a meaningful translation of φιλοτιμεῖσθαι ἡσυχάζειν  in 
1 Thess 4:11. I've looked at all the major lexicons and translations yet 
have desired more. In the crudest form I get to love and honor "to rest or 
"retirement"" It seems to me that this passage may be accurately used to 
teach entrepreneurship (πράσσειν τὰ ἴδια)and even competitive philanthropy 
(φιλοτιμεῖσθαι). An aspiration based on the one valuing rest/relaxation 
which motivates one to engage his or her own business and to work that 
business with their own hands leads to self-sufficiency and a reputation 
among the community.

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Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 12:20 PM
To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: B-Greek Digest, Vol 95, Issue 3

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: B-Greek Appreciation Day (was A hearty vote for our
>      esteemed scholars) (Blue Meeksbay)
>   2. Lexicography and Deponency (Randall Buth)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 10:05:31 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Blue Meeksbay <bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com>
> To: Mark Lightman <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>
> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] B-Greek Appreciation Day (was A hearty vote for
> our esteemed scholars)
> Message-ID: <325239.88507.qm at web59509.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Hi Mark,
> ?
> I am not sure. Gildersleeve would be fine, or how about Carl Conrad?s 
> birthday!
> ?: > ) To be honest, I am not good at choosing things like this, so I 
> think, if
> everyone agrees, we should just leave it up to your wise judgment. : > ) 
> ??Oh,
> and yes I have already voted. : > )
> ?
> Many thanks,
> Blue Harris
> ?
> P.S. ?You were one of the ones, among others, I thought of when I 
> mentioned
> enthusiasm. : > ) So again, many thanks to you!
>
> ________________________________
> From: Mark Lightman <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>
> To: Blue Meeksbay <bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com>; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Sent: Tue, November 2, 2010 9:20:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek]B-Greek Appreciation Day (was A hearty vote for our
> esteemed scholars)
>
>
> Blue wrote:
>
> <So, if we do not already have
> such a day on the list, I would like cast my vote for a B-Greek 
> Appreciation day
>
> for all our esteemed scholars on the list.>
>
> Hi, Blue,
>
> They have something similar on B-Latin.? They celebrate it on the Ides of 
> March,
> I think.
>
> What day so you propose?? Feb 6th, Basil Gildersleeve's birthday, would 
> work for
> me.
>
>
> Are you going to do any other voting today?
>
> Mark L
>
>
>
> FWSFOROS MARKOS
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Blue Meeksbay <bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com>
> To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Sent: Tue, November 2, 2010 9:11:14 AM
> Subject: [B-Greek] A hearty vote for our esteemed scholars
>
> I would like to take a moment out of this day to say thank you to all the
> *esteemed scholars* on this list, as Marilyn Phemister ?called them in her 
> post
> last month. Those are good words. They are scholars because they are truly
> gifted in the Greek language. They are esteemed because they have devoted 
> much
> time, energy, and discipline to the Greek language. If not for their 
> gifting we
> would not have the many fine translations we possess; if not for their
> enthusiasm we would lose the joy of the Greek language; and finally, if 
> not for
> their devotion we would not have such willing brethren willing to 
> enlighten
> others to the intricacies of the Greek language. So, if we do not already 
> have
> such a day on the list, I would like cast my vote for a B-Greek 
> Appreciation day
>
> for all our esteemed scholars on the list.
> ?
> Blue Harris
>
>
> ? ? ?
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 10:08:12 -0700
> From: Randall Buth <randallbuth at gmail.com>
> To: B Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>, Stephen Carlson
> <stemmatic at gmail.com>, Ken Penner <kpenner at stfx.ca>
> Subject: [B-Greek] Lexicography and Deponency
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTimXQY1dFP0x5UTXfTHxWGBmdajPuyd95aK2ZC+p at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> This discussion is a wonderful opening into many points that may
> help the field in the generations to come. The issues are important
> though some of the answers are not completely clear and may need
> some trial and error. I wish that I had more time to elaborate these
> days but I'll put in a few comments below.
>
> Ken egrapse
>> Well presented, Stephen. I agree with all your points, including the
>> preference for the aorist infinitive in principle, ultimately coming back
>> to the present infinitive.
>
> First of course, in line with Carl's questions on terminology, we really
> can't refer to a 'present' infinitive. It is only present in being linked
> morphologically to the present tense. But it is linked to the imperfect
> too. I would propose English: either Continuative or Imperfective or
> in more plain, simple talk 'Open-ended',
> Greek: PARATATIKH (lit: 'extending').
>
> Carl egrapse
>> Yesterday I weighed in here on a matter that Stephen hasn't raised
>> but that I think belongs to the same discussion: rationalization of the
>> pedagogically essential elements of verbs that should be committed to
>> memory by students in order to grasp the tense-stems at work in each
>> of the major tense-systems and in the voices: i.e., the "principal 
>> parts."
>
>> Another item worth addressing, although it is probably even more
>> difficult to combat than U.S. resistance to the metric system: the
>> terminology we use to identify the morphological and semantic
>> categories of the ancient Greek verb. Although Randall suggests that
>> we simply accept and employ the Greek terms employed by Dionysius
>> Thrax and other "grammatici antiqui," some of the English terms
>> might certainly be improved upon (e.g. "tense," "voice," "mood,"
>
> NAI, LALOYN THN ELLHNIKHN
> XRWMAI TOIS ONOMASI TOY DIONYSIOY TOY QRAKOS
> but I am happy to have reasonable, non-distracting terms when
> speaking English. As mentioned above, an open-ended infinitive,
> or imperfective infinitive is to the point and non-distracting.
> 'voice' is a bigger problem because it is a term that is fixed in English
> outside of reference to Greek. It does not speak to me at all, except
> as a blank word that I understand within a linguistic framework. I
> much prefer the backtranslation from Greek DIAQESIS 'disposition'.
> Middle voice is often simply a mental 'disposition'. That works for
> many/most aorist QH forms, too, though I am resigned to calling
> them passives, like POREYQHNAI. Obviously, 'passive' doesn't
> mean squat for me when I'm talking about Greek. And the Greeks
> started this naming with their PAQHTIKOS. So, OK, I can 'feel'
> the 'pathos' in POREYQHNAI if I have to walk up the side of a
> mountain.
>
> ...
>
>> But now I want to deal more directly with Stephen's questions about
>> lemmata, voice-forms, etc.
>
> We have been using pages of verbs for reference for students when
> speaking and when practicing on fluency drills.
> columns across a landscape page include
>
> aorist  paratatikos  parakeimenos  enestos  mellwn  upotaktikh  eytikh
>
> These pages have metamophicized and now have infinitives at the top
> of appropriate columns, aorist first and on the highest line of the table,
> PARATATIKH down a row and over the PARATATIKOS, then down
> another row and in smaller typeface the PARAKEIMENOS and
> MELLWN participles over their respective columns.
> Incidentally, the YPOTATAKTIKH and EYTIKH columns have both the
> aorist and 'open-ended' forms listed together, divided by a slant in the
> appropriate row for the person,
> e.g. in the 1st person box AGAPHSAIMI     /AGAPWiHN
>  ??????????/???????
> This has worked well.
> Subjunctive is more common, of course, but
> the principle is the same, listing AGAPHSW/AGAPW, etc., and having
> (???) ?????????? ???/???
> at the top of the column in small print.
>
> One result of this is that a table only includes ONE 'disposition' at
> a time. In other words we are lemmatizing separate voices of a
> verb. This has worked out very well with all of the common and
> irregular verbs because they need to be used and carry meaning
> according to the voice/disposition.
> thus, one looks up
> ELESQAI 'to choose' in one table (a.k.a. "AIREW" ?????)
> and one would look up
>ELEIN 'to take' in a different table. (though we don't have this table
> among our 180 sample verbs.)
> We do have an Eng-Grk index and insert crossrefs in the tables to
> where tables may be found, like TREXEIN see DRAMEIN.
> The 'downside' of this is that a verb set like POIHSAI~POIEIN
> and POIHSASQAI~POIEISQAI are provided separately
> lemmacized tables. It doesn't seem like a downside at all with
> the extra clarity that it provides.
>
> And as I've mentioned on list more than once I think,
> we sometimes refer to verbs by repeating the aorist infinitive
> following with paratatikh in order to iconically mimic the
> meaning:
> DRAMEIN DRAMEIN >> TREXEIN
> that is, 'to run, to run, >> to be running'.
>
> PS: as a summary table Carl is correct that we have chosen
> LYSAI 'to untie', after having toyed with LOYSAI for a while.
> [[It has one big advantage in being a verb that Americans
> pronounce correctly. It is ironic to hear the basic paradigm
> 'I untie' mispronounced as 'I wash' almost always.]]
> There are a couple of little irregularities with LOYSAI (very rare
> in PAQHTIKOS and having the -SQH- stem) that
> led us back to LYSAI, but the middle LOYSASQAI is a real
> verb, and practical, if in other people's company. With soap.
>
> ERRWSQE
> IWANHS
> -- 
> Randall Buth, PhD
> www.biblicalulpan.org
> randallbuth at gmail.com
> Biblical Language Center
> Learn Easily - Progress Further - Remember for Life
>
>
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> End of B-Greek Digest, Vol 95, Issue 3
> **************************************
>
Rick Carlton
rickcarlton at hotmail.com 




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