[B-Greek] Matthew 1:20
Michael Aubrey
mga318 at yahoo.com
Sun Nov 28 19:02:42 EST 2010
No, because then hAGION is not modifying GENNHQEN. Its then modifying ESTIN.
From memory, I had reconstructed the texts wrong in my head.
Hypothetically, if GENNHQEN, PNEUMATOS, and hAGION were all the same
case/gender/number in the same structure, hAGION cannot be viewed as modifying
GENNHQEN.
And next time, I will look directly at the text instead of speaking from memory.
Mike
________________________________
From: Mark Lightman <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>
To: Michael Aubrey <mga318 at yahoo.com>; Dony K. Donev <dony at cupandcross.com>;
Biblical Greek' <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sun, November 28, 2010 3:54:49 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Matthew 1:20
Fair enough, Mike, but are you saying that if the text DID say
τὸ γὰρ ἐν αὐτῇ γεννηθὲν ἐκ πνεύματός ἐστιν ἅγιον (hAGION)
in the sense of "the thing born of the Spirit in you is holy," that that would
not be permissible Greek for some reason?
Mark L
FWSFOROS MARKOS
________________________________
From: Michael Aubrey <mga318 at yahoo.com>
To: Mark Lightman <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>; Dony K. Donev
<dony at cupandcross.com>; Biblical Greek' <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sun, November 28, 2010 4:46:01 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Matthew 1:20
You are indeed correct. I didn't actually look at the verse. My own comments
were from memory from studying discontinuous constituents.
Mike
________________________________
From: Mark Lightman <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>
To: Michael Aubrey <mga318 at yahoo.com>; Dony K. Donev <dony at cupandcross.com>;
Biblical Greek' <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sun, November 28, 2010 3:22:03 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Matthew 1:20
ταῦτα δὲ αὐτοῦ ἐνθυμηθέντος ἰδοὺ ἄγγελος κυρίου κατ' ὄναρ ἐφάνη αὐτῷ λέγων,
Ἰωσὴφ υἱὸς Δαυίδ, μὴ φοβηθῇς παραλαβεῖν Μαρίαν τὴν γυναῖκά σου, τὸ γὰρ ἐν αὐτῇ
γεννηθὲν ἐκ πνεύματός ἐστιν ἁγίου:
TO GAR EN AUTHi GENNHQEN EK PNEUMATOW ESTIN hAGIOU.
Unless I am missing something, the form in the verse is hAGIOU, not hAGION, and
for that reason must go with the genitive PNEUMATOS and not the nominative TO
GENNHQEN.
I don't see any variants with hAGION.
Mark L
FWSFOROS MARKOS
________________________________
From: Michael Aubrey <mga318 at yahoo.com>
To: Dony K. Donev <dony at cupandcross.com>; Biblical Greek'
<b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sun, November 28, 2010 3:37:55 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Matthew 1:20
hAGION cannot modify GENNHQEN because of the intervening preposition. While
discontinuous phrases are allow in Greek, there are strict limits on the form
they take. In the case of prepositional phrases, you are only going to find two
patterns:
Preposition -> Adjective -> X -> Noun
Preposition -> Noun -> X -> Adjective
Discontinuous constituency like this arises with the author/speaker viewed the
first part of the discontinuity as particularly important or relevant to the
message.
The only occasions where a word that is functionally in a prepositional phrase
can appear before the preposition are in Poetry, though even then, I can only
say that for Classical poetry. I haven't looked at Hellenistic poetry. Also, in
Homeric Greek, there is significantly more freedom in the placement of
prepositions, but such phenomena are not relevant to what we're seeing here.
If you're willing to push through some rather technical discussion, I've done
some writing on the subject of discontinuous phrases in Greek, specifically
looking at the Hellenistic period:
http://evepheso.wordpress.com/studies-in-greek-syntax/
Mike Aubrey
http://evepheso.wordpress.com
________________________________
From: Dony K. Donev <dony at cupandcross.com>
To: Biblical Greek' <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sun, November 28, 2010 2:18:49 PM
Subject: [B-Greek] Matthew 1:20
Does hAGION refer to the Spirit OR the begotten, since both are neuter singular?
If it refers to the Spirit, please explain why and are there other example by
Matthew
where hAGION and pneumatos are separated by a verb (ex. estin). Thanks.
Dony K. Donev
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