[B-Greek] The relative pronouns in Ephesians 6:17 and Revelation 5:8‏

John Sanders john.franklin.sanders at gmail.com
Fri Oct 15 00:12:04 EDT 2010


>
> LJ has written:  To begin with "simile" is not the word.  As….



JFS:  You are quite correct.  But I do not know of any restriction on
“simile” to only “as” or “like”.  I personally call a form A word B, where
the relationship between A and B is metaphorical, a simile.  I do so because
I think it puts more emphasis on the form.  I do not think it is a
particularly egregious use of the term.  If you find it offensive, or too
liberal, or too imprecise, then substitute “metaphor” in its place, I have
no objection.



LJ has written:  The correct word here is "symbol." The….



JFS:  I agree with you.  But if the symbols are in a metaphorical form
(which I call simile), then I think I am warranted in using the term
metaphor or simile.  I do not think that the use of symbol, metaphor, or
simile are exclusive of one another.



LJ has written:  I don't see how you can interpret it the way you have done.
Where….



JFS:  I read the text in a linear fashion.  I have certain expectations
(certain assumptions) of how the text operates.  Those expectations (or
assumptions) are defined as grammar or discourse analysis or some such
thing.  In this particular case I assume that a writer, when he uses a
relative pronoun, already has a specific noun in mind that he will replace
with the relative pronoun.  This specific noun we refer to as a “referent”
or “antecedent” or such.  This antecedent or referent puts certain
conditions on the relative pronoun; namely, gender and number.  So as I read
and I come to a relative pronoun, my mind goes back to the nearest noun that
set those conditions.   In this particular case hAI sends my mind back to
FIALAS, which meets those conditions.



LJ has written:  …how does your interpretation result in a more "correct"
use of the relative pronoun than the way I have explained it?



JFS:  first let me give my definition of good or correct grammar.  I define
good or correct grammar when the syntactical usage of the text satisfies the
expected usage of an educated reader.  For us the education comes from
textbooks, paradigms, etc., which in themselves ultimately (or so I would
think) are derived from exemplars of “good” text from “educated” writers.



 As I read the texts of Rev 5:8 and Ephesians 6:17, the syntactical
relationships as I encounter them satisfy my expectations as I have been
instructed to read the Greek.  You claim that this is incorrect, that one
needs to read the text differently (based, I presume, on specific symbolic
meanings of certain words).  Your interpretation may be correct, but the
“burden of proof”, which in this case means the burden of persuasion, lies
with you.  That is a heavy burden, and presently you have not persuaded me.



-- 
John Sanders
Suzhou, China



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