[B-Greek] Was there any word for ...

John Benson johncbenson at gmail.com
Tue Oct 26 00:26:22 EDT 2010


Thanks. Much appreciated. I am wrestling with the way of thinking: if they
didn't have a word for something, then it probably didn't exist. Yet I also
know intuitively that first there is a phenomenon, and then a word for it;
so there must be some period of time during which there is a thing with no
naming word, possibly for everything.

John

On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 8:06 PM, Kevin Riley <klriley at alphalink.com.au>wrote:

> Perhaps you are asking for a Greek word that names something that the
> Greeks did not think in terms of.  That sex should be 'mutual, consenting
> and non-exploitative' is something that modern western people are focused
> on, as well as defining who exactly is an 'adult', but I doubt that any
> ancient people, or many modern peoples, actually think in those terms.  The
> concept of inequality seems to be inherent in many concepts of sexual
> activity, and that may be because most social relationships were (and in
> many places still are) thought of as being inherently between non-equals -
> at least for the duration of that activity.  When you consider that in some
> parts of the world the idea that rape can occur in marriage, or that a
> female can rape a male, are still novel (and largely rejected) ideas, you
> can see the problem of trying to find a word in one language that defines
> what is a cultural idea in a different time and place.  It may be more
> useful to consider the range of words used to name sexual acts between
> males, and what is explicit or implicit in using one word rather than
> another.
>
> Kevin Riley
>
>
> On 26/10/2010 10:51 AM, John Benson wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the reply.
>>
>> Although the question was not strictly limited to behavior, given the
>> qualifiers of mutual, consenting, and non-exploitive, it was my
>> intention to emphasize behavioral qualities that might be quickly
>> observable or discernible, rather than feelings.
>>
>> Maybe it would have been clearer to say: consenting adults, without
>> any bribe or coercion.
>>
>> With appreciation,
>>
>> John
>>
>> On 10/25/10, Carl Conrad<cwconrad2 at mac.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> On Oct 25, 2010, at 12:18 AM, John Benson wrote:
>>>
>>>> Please forgive me if this topic has already been worn out here, but I am
>>>> fairly new and working on a paper.
>>>>
>>>> Was there any Greek word in the biblical world that could have been used
>>>> (whether it got into the bible or not) to name any male-male,
>>>> adult-adult,
>>>> mutually consenting non-exploitive sexual activity? There seem to be a
>>>> plethora of words that do *not* quite have that meaning, because of
>>>> indicating adult-youth, or master-slave, or otherwise exploitive or
>>>> coerced.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Replies by email rather than posted to the whole list would be just
>>>> fine.
>>>> All I want is a little scholarly help.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your kind attention.
>>>>
>>> I've been reflecting on this question from time to time repeatedly since
>>> I first read it earlier this morning. It's a strange question, reminding
>>> me
>>> a bit of Aristotle's reference in the Nicomachean Ethics to virtues and
>>> vices (whether of excess or deficiency) that are recognizable in human
>>> behavior but for which, he says, there isn't any regular Greek noun
>>> referring
>>> to it.
>>>
>>> The one qualifier that seems to me to put the kibosh on the effort to
>>> find
>>> the word you're looking for is not so much the "male-male"factor as the
>>> "sexual" factor. It's commonly said (probably too often) that Greek uses
>>> different words for sexual attraction (ἔρως, ERWS), kindred feeling
>>> (φιλία FILIA), and ἀγάπη AGAPH, which BDAG defines as "the quality
>>>  of warm regard for and interest in another, esteem, affection, regard,
>>>  love (without limitation to very intimate relationships, and very seldom
>>> in general Greek of sexual attraction)." I know that we've had recurrent
>>> disputes in this forum over whether or not the alternation between the
>>> verbs AGAPAN and FILEIN in John 21 is really significant, in the
>>> course of which disputes it's been noted that both verbs are found in
>>> other
>>> GNT texts where one might expect the other one instead.
>>>
>>> It is said -- as BDAG says indeed -- that AGAPH is not ordinarily used
>>> in Greek of sexual attraction. And that seems to be true even of such
>>> texts as Eph. 5:25 Οἱ ἄνδρες, ἀγαπᾶτε τὰς γυναῖκας, καθὼς
>>> καὶ ὁ Χριστὸς ἠγάπησεν τὴν ἐκκλησίαν ... , for there the exhortation
>>> to husbands really does not seem to focus on sexual preference.
>>>
>>> All of which having been said, I personally continue to suppose that
>>> AGAPH as Paul characterizes it in 1 Cor 13 is the term par excellence
>>> for unselfish and non-exploitative affection. 1 Cor 13 is often read
>>> at weddings, and in fact I read my own version of it at my daughter's
>>> wedding at her request, although I don't think that the focus of the
>>> original is on marital love at all. And so, leaving aside all questions
>>> of the propriety of male-male, female-female, or male-female sexual
>>> relationship, I would still think that AGAPH is the proper word -- in
>>> the Christian tradition, at least -- for a profound mutual
>>> non-exploitative
>>> loving commitment of one person for another whether or not that
>>> commitment has a sexual expression.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Carl W. Conrad
>>> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  ---
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