[B-Greek] Gen 25.23 and the LXX, in Rom 9.12

Albert Pietersma albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
Thu Sep 16 15:15:13 EDT 2010


Aren't you creating your own problem by insisting that Rom 9:12 is  
speaking of "older" and "younger" when neither the Hebrew nor the  
Greek of Gen 25:23 is speaking of "older" and "younger"?  Moreover,  
since Rom 9 is explicitly about Rebecca and the birth of Jacob and  
Esau, is there any doubt that Gen 25:23 is being cited?
Al
On Sep 16, 2010, at 1:54 PM, P R wrote:

> I was thinking more along the lines of Paul's choice of words for  
> "younger,"
> (elasswn). Because this wasn't the normal word that would be used to  
> signify
> "younger," was this evidence that Paul was deliberately following  
> the LXX
> here?
>
> Paul Rittman
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 2:46 AM, Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>  
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> BDAG, s.v. MEGAS/μέγας 1.d:
>>       d. of age (Jos., Ant. 12, 207 μικρὸς ἢ  
>> μέγας=‘young or old’); to
>> include all concerned μικροὶ καὶ μεγάλοι small and  
>> great (PGM 15, 18) Rv
>> 11:18; 13:16; 19:5, 18; 20:12. μικρῷ τε καὶ  
>> μεγάλῳ Ac 26:22. ἀπὸ μικροῦ ἕως
>> μεγάλου (Gen 19:11; 4 Km 23:2; 2 Ch 34:30; POxy 1350) 8:10;  
>> Hb 8:11 (Jer
>> 38:34). μέγας γενόμενος when he was grown up 11:24 (Ex  
>> 2:11). ὁ μείζων the
>> older (O. Wilck II, 144, 3 [128 AD]; 213, 3; 1199, 2; LXX; cp.  
>> Polyb. 18,
>> 18, 9 Σκιπίων ὁ μέγας; 32, 12, 1) Ro 9:12; B 13:2  
>> (both Gen 25:23).
>>
>> I don't think this is anything distinctly Semtiic. Contemporary  
>> Latin, of
>> course, uses MAIOR and MINOR for "older" and "younger" -- Polybius  
>> in BDAG's
>> citation has simply turned the Latin name "Scipio Major" into its  
>> Greek
>> equivalent.  I'm reminded of an elderly friend whose granddaughter  
>> was named
>> for her; how should the two be distinguished? "Well," she said,  
>> "you can
>> call me "Big Jane" or "Old Jane," but you don't call me "Big Old  
>> Jane."
>>
>> Carl W. Conrad
>> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>>
>>
>>
>>
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—
Albert Pietersma PhD
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Email: albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
Homepage: http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~pietersm




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