[B-Greek] Should someone learning ancient Greek do Rosetta Stone Modern?
Ed Walkwitz
edwalkwitz at yahoo.com
Wed Sep 29 13:09:46 EDT 2010
Anyone interested might want to check out, "The Learnables". I've used Rosetta
Stone for Spanish, and "The Learnables" a little for Russian. Rosetta Stone
might be a great program for someone with a different learning style than me,
but the Learnables seemed very effective and a lot more fun and interesting.
Ed Walkwitz, Des Moines, Iowa
________________________________
From: Mark Lightman <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>
To: Randall Buth <randallbuth at gmail.com>; B Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>;
Barry Hofstetter <nebarry at verizon.net>
Sent: Tue, September 28, 2010 1:36:14 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Should someone learning ancient Greek do Rosetta Stone
Modern?
The first time I heard Randall's argument, that learning to speak Modern Hebrew
will help your NT Greek more than will learning to read Modern Greek, it struck
me as counter-intuitive and false. It now strikes me as counter-intuitive and
true.
On top of everyone else, learning to speak Modern Hebrew will make the
transition to learning to read and speak Biblical Hebrew an easy one, and this
is super helpful for NT Greek.
If people really felt that learning to speak Ancient Greek is possible, there
would be less talk of NT Greek learners learning to speak Modern Greek.
Louis' question also turns on how good a product Rosetta Stone is. I have heard
it said that it's greatest strength is its marketing campaign.
They say that a Movie Star's career goes through four stages. 1. Who's Robert
De Niro? 2. Get me Robert De Niro. 3. Get me a Robert De Niro type. 4.
Who's Robert De Niro? While it is true that there is no Rosetta Stone for
Ancient Greek, there is plenty of Koine Rosetta Stone TYPE stuff out there, with
more being produced every day.
Mark L
FWSFOROS MARKOS
________________________________
From: Randall Buth <randallbuth at gmail.com>
To: B Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>; Barry Hofstetter <nebarry at verizon.net>;
Mark Lightman <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>
Sent: Tue, September 28, 2010 11:43:11 AM
Subject: Should someone learning ancient Greek do Rosetta Stone Modern?
>>From: Mark Lightman
>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Should someone learning ancient Greek do
>> Rosetta StoneModern?
>>
>> I suppose I should let Randall speak for himself, but he is on record
>> as saying that if you want to improve your ability to read New
>> Testament Greek, you are better off learning Modern Hebrew than
>> Modern Greek.
I've been
katika msituni siku chache
off in Swahili land for a few days.
It's nice to be reminded of former discussions. I'll respond below.
[Barry]
> "Is that supposed to be irony?" Although, as I noted before, modern
> Greek speakers that I knew, attempting to get an easy A by reading
> the NT or Xenephon when I was a Classics undergrad, had quite a
> few problems, to the point where it was clear that they often simply
> couldn't do it. So maybe learning something completely unrelated
> purges the mind, linguistically speaking... :)
Let me try to explain what I don't exactly remember saying, or at least
its context.
Why might speaking Hebrew potentially be more important for a NT Greek
student than modern Greek?
1. Speaking Hebrew allows direct access to Mishnaic Hebrew sources,
which are the primary cultural repository for the culture underlying the
NT gospels, not to mention the secondary background behind much that
is in the epistles.
2. Modern Hebrew morphology maps 100% to the ancient language.
That means that all of the forms that one internalizes in the modern
language are used UNCHANGED in the ancient dialects. Of course,
there are additional forms and categories in the ancient language, and
the modern language has growth in vocabulary, in size, in some
changed meanings, and in loan words outside of Greek and Aramaic
(like Arabic, Yiddish, and English). But having isomorphic overlay with
the ancient language is wonderful for a fast read, fast introduction, and
deeper introduction into both biblical and mishnaic Hebrew.
3. Modern Hebrew allows one to successfully internalize the language
and can potentially show a student what it is like to read an ancient
language 'from within'. This can then become a point of comparison
for Greek. That is, one should aim on using the KOINH and
controling it as well as Hebrew, reading DSS, mishnaic Heb,
and biblical Hebrew, plus commentaries and secondary lit on all of
these.
4. Modern Greek, on the other hand, has many small changes in the
shapes of the words that requires some adjustment and double
learning, especially if someone expects to speak with the old forms.
In terms of vocab overlap, Modern Greek feels like about a 60%
to me, while modern Hebrew feels like 80%. Those are 'gut feelings',
and even include a little educated extrapolation, so they can provide
some understanding for my comments without being ironclad
statistics.
Putting the package together, I think that speaking Hebrew is
more important for a NT student than speaking Modern Greek.
But if someone appreciates good food and great singing, then by
all means learn modern Greek. And for access to Byzantine Greek,
and a feel for the history of the language, it appears that a wide
modern fluency would serve well.
If I were under 20-30, or interested in the whole history of Greek,
I would recommend finding the time to include fluency in
Modern Greek. But I would recommend finding the time for speaking
modern Hebrew at any age, and if choosing speaking modern Hebrew
versus Modern Greek, I would recommend Hebrew, hands down.
and just so the above doesn't miscommunicate something out of
context:
I do advocate speaking the KOINH if one is interested in the KOINH.
kwa heri ERRWSQE
Randall Buth
--
Randall Buth, PhD
www.biblicalulpan.org
randallbuth at gmail.com
Biblical Language Center
Learn Easily - Progress Further - Remember for Life
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