[B-Greek] Gnomic Subjunctive Aorist? (was Aorist Subjunctive in 1 Jn 1:9)
=)
p1234567891 at gmail.com
Tue Apr 5 11:02:45 EDT 2011
Dear Alastair,
I do consider "gnomic" to refer to generic meaning, however there does not
seem to be evidence that this generic meaning is intrinsic to the verb or,
for that matter, even a whole complete clause, just as in English the
statement "I will get what I want" is ambiguous, either meaning "I will get
later what I want at the present" or the gnomic "I will get what I want in
general", so whether some statement is gnomic in English depends completely
upon the wider context, not even the immediate context and certainly not the
verbs. I do believe the same is true in Greek.
For example, that which you quoted from Iliad is:
[Iliad II:17:30-32] "but you having retreated, I urge [you] to go into [a]
crowd, not even standing opposite me, before [you] suffer something evil.
moreover [it] having been done, even [a] fool shall know [it]."
Yes, in this context the gnomic meaning is intended, but it is dependent on
the context and independent of the verb tense. The anarthous "nhpios" is
part of it, because it has no referrent and therefore implies a "general"
fool.
And I cannot agree that we should assume that "ean" only influences the
choice of mood and does not affect the semantic meaning. As far as I have
seen, the usage reflects not only the choice of the subjunctive mood but
also the range of semantic meaning that can be expressed. Also the
subjunctive does not exist in certain "tenses" and therefore cannot have a
one-to-one correspondence with its indicative counterpart. So all my
examples were meant to prove is that the gnomic meaning is determined solely
by the context and not by the verb tense.
As for those which I listed, you might dispute Matt 12:29, but it means "how
can anyone enter into the house of the strong man unless [he] first binds
the strong man?". If it said "[a] strong man" I agree that it can be gnomic,
but because it refers to "the strong man", and the context has Jesus saying
"if I cast out the demons in [the] spirit of God, then the kingdom of God
came upon you" before and "and then [he] will plunder his house" after, the
context indicates the intended meaning to be association between Jesus and
the one who binds the strong man, the strong man having been referred to
earlier. Other examples similarly refer to an indefinite possibility rather
than a generic truth. Matt 18:13 uses both present imperative "go" and
aorist imperative "reprove" as well, if we consider imperatives also in our
study.
Regards,
David Lim
On 5 April 2011 11:28, Alastair Haines <afhaines at tpg.com.au> wrote:
>
>
> *From:* *David Lim*
> *Subject:* Gnomic Subjunctive Aorist?
> Dear Alastair,
> Do you have examples from the new testament, or if not then from the
> septuagint, of the construction "ean" + subjunctive aorist, which clearly
> mean more than simply an indefinite possibility? I have not seen "ean" +
> subjunctive used when the "gnomic sense" is intended, and I consider "ean"
> to "modify" the verb, including its grammatical and semantic meaning. For
> example, Matt 9:21 uses "ean monon aywmai" where the aorist subjunctive is
> clearly referring to the possibility of the woman touching Jesus' garment
> just once, so it must be the context that supplies the "gnomic" meaning.
> Other clear examples of this construction in Matt which are not gnomic are
> 12:29, 16:26, 18:13,15-17, 21:3,21,24-26, 22:24, 26:42, 28:14. So are there
> examples which are unambiguously "gnomic"?
>
>
> Hi David
>
> I think you and I may have different ideas about what can be classified as
> gnomic.
>
> Here's an example of the understanding I have, as expressed by Corien Bary,
> *Aspect in Ancient Greek: **A semantic analysis of the aorist and
> imperfective*, unpublished PhD dissertation, (Radboud University Nijmegen,
> 2009), available online from her university.
> http://ncs.ruhosting.nl/corien/DissertationCorienBary.pdf
>
> "Ancient Greek has a second use of the form for *aoristic aspect* and past
> tense that often receives a present tense translation in English: it is the
> aorist in descriptions of *habits, procedures, and general truths*. This
> use is called *generic or gnomic*." (20-21, emphasis added)
>
> Bary gives an example from Homer, *Iliad* 17:32: ῥεχθὲν δέ τε νήπιος ἔγνω.
>
> http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Hom.+Il.+17.32&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0133
> She translates this as "Once a thing has been done, the fool knows it."
> Murray and Wyatt (LCL 171) offer: "When it is done, even a fool can
> recognize it."
>
> *Before* we turn to the New Testament, it might be well for us to agree
> about what sorts of Greek statements actually count as gnomic (or generic).
> Would you agree that *Iliad* 17:32 contains an example of a gnomic aorist?
>
> There are at least three language features at play as we look at the verbs
> that concern us: mood, tense and *aspect*. As I've already noted, for some
> of the verbs we are considering, embedded in conditionals as they are, those
> conditionals influence choice of mood (subjunctive), while still leaving us
> to have to account for the writer's selection of tense and/or aspect of the
> verbs in some other way.
>
> alastair
>
>
>
>
>
>
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