[B-Greek] Ancient Greek Voice Forms
Bryant J. Williams III
bjwvmw at com-pair.net
Sat Apr 16 12:57:28 EDT 2011
Dear Mike,
Would you please repeat your reply to Mark in English? :)))))) or should I say
in Greek? :)))))
Active usually has the Subject performing the action, while Passive usually has
the Subject receiving the action. I take "Subject Affectiveness" to mean that
the "focus is on the subject's relationship to the action or state of the verb.
It seems that the Middle is some what like the Action and Passive voices
involved together. If Carl is correct in the history of the language, then the
Passive was later separated from the Middle-Passive to reflect the receiving of
the action upon the Subject. This created a situation in which there was less
use of the Middle to reflect a "reflexive" or other uses than in previous
generations of the language. This is especially true of Koine since it was in a
state of flux during the main period of the use, 200 BC-200 AD. The Byzantine
Period would reflect the development of the changes from Classical and Koine.
It seems to me that English, especially in the US, has gone the same way in
reflecting the predominance of Action Verbs over against Passive Verbs. We could
also add the demise of the 2nd Person Pronouns, Thee/Thou/Thy/Thine, into the
mix. Thus, the Middle Voice, even in English, is really only used with the
addition of the suffix, "-self" and its plurals form, "-selves."
This would also be reflected in the differences in spelling, e.g. color vs
colour, Savior vs Savior, judgement vs judgment, etc. The pronunciation of
certain words, etc. potato, tomato, INsurance vs inSURance, schedule (skedule)
vs schedule (shedule), etc. The schemes reflect not only regional, e.g. "Y'all"
vs "You all," but also national dialectical differences, British vs American,
e.g. "boot" (trunk) vs. "boot" (a type of shoe); "torch" (flashlight) vs "torch"
(a long stick with fire/flame on one end).
En Xristwi,
Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Aubrey" <mga318 at yahoo.com>
To: "Mark Lightman" <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>; <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Ancient Greek Voice Forms
> Well, if you're going to redefine a technical term so dramatically, then none
of them. But you're over extending a term that has a precise meaning.
>
> Subject affectedness refers to predications where the subject is ‘the locus of
the principle effects of the verbally denoted action’ (Klaiman 1991: 106).
>
> Mike Aubrey
> http://evepheso.wordpress.com
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Mark Lightman <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>
> To: Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
> Cc: B-Greek B-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 7:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Ancient Greek Voice Forms
>
> What are some verbs that do NOT participate in subject-affectedness. What
would
> a sentence look like where the subject is NOT involved in the action?
>
> Mark L
>
>
>
> FWSFOROS MARKOS
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
> To: Mark Lightman <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>
> Cc: B-Greek B-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Fri, April 15, 2011 7:24:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Ancient Greek Voice Forms
>
>
> On Apr 15, 2011, at 8:21 PM, Mark Lightman wrote:
>
> > Hi, Carl,
> >
> > I want to make sure I understand what you and Rutger Allan are saying.
> >
> > Are you saying that verbs with "deponent" futures, like AKOUSOMAI, PIOUMAI,
> > ESSOMAI, etc, have this general middle force, what you call "subject focus,"
> > even in the other tenses, though in those tenses they are just not marked
for
> > this "subject focus"?
>
> That sounds pretty vague; I don't think I've discussed that in anything that
> I've written recently about middle verbs. It is true, however,
> that there are several verbs that regularly have futures that are middle:
> LAMBANW/LH(M)YOMAI, MANQANW/MAQHSOMAI, AKOUW/
> AKOUSOMAI, etc.. The "active" morphology is the default or unmarked
> form for voice, while the middle forms are marked for subject-
> affectedness. The fact that these verbs have middle futures does seem to
> indicate that the future forms of these verbs are felt to mark the involvement
> of the subject in the action or process contemplated as taking place in the
> future. Allan discusses these future middles in Chapter 5 of his book,
> p. 178 and refers to Rijksbaron's _Syntax and Semantics of the Verb in
> Classical Greek)_, §46.2, pp. 156ff, if you're really interested in following
> up on this.
>
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>
> > ________________________________
> > From: Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
> > To: Brian Abasciano <bvabasciano at gmail.com>
> > Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> > Sent: Fri, April 15, 2011 12:11:03 PM
> > Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Ancient Greek Voice Forms
> >
> >
> > On Apr 15, 2011, at 12:11 PM, Brian Abasciano wrote:
> >
> >> Carl,
> >>
> >> Where do you line up with respect to Rutger Allan and his book THE MIDDLE
> >> VOICE IN ANCIENT GREEK: A Study in Polysemy? Do you and he basically share
> >> the same view, or is there significant difference?
> >>
> >> God bless,
> >>
> >> Brian Abasciano
> >
> > Well, if you read through my AGNT Newsletter article, you might have noted
> > that I cited Rutger Allan's dissertation and his listing of categories of
> >Middle
> > verbs. In my judgment Allan has laid the foundation for understanding
middle-
> > voice forms and usage in Homer and in Classical Greek; the trends noted in
> > those earlier epochs of Greek linguistic history clearly continue to develop
in
> >
> > Hellenistic and later Greek. In particular, the θη (QH) forms in the aorist
> > and future tense-systems are found for only a couple of the standard middle
> > categories in Homeric texts but have come to embrace several more of the
> > middle categories in the Classical era, and the trend develops yet further
in
> > the Hellenistic era, where forms like ἀπεκρίνατο (APEKRINATO) and
> > ἐγένετο (EGENETO) are being replaced by ἀπεκρίθη (APEKRIQH) and
> > ἐγενήθη (EGENHQH) respectively. There are a couple questions Allan
> > touches upon in his last chapter, such as conditions under which η (Η) and
> > θη (QH) forms of the same verb may appear, that seem to me open to
> > question. On the whole, however, I think that Rutger Allan's work can
> > and should be readily supplemented with data and exposition of the
> > continuing trends in the Koine Greek of the NT and other Hellenistic
> > authors. I am aware too of some work that's been done on further
> > developments of these trends in Byzantine and later Greek.
> >
> > One curious item that I would just love to see investigated and explained
> > is the gradual process by which the verb εἶναι (EINAI) has been
> > transformed from a morphology that is fundamentally "active" in
> > the present εἰμί (EIMI) and imperfect ἦν (HN) with only a future
> > that is middle ἔσομαι (ESOMAI) to a morphology that is basically
> > middle: εἶμαι (EIMAI), ἤμην (HMHN), ἔσομαι (ESOMAI). Does
> > it association with γί(γ)νομαι (GI{G}NOMAI ἐγενόμην
> > EGENOMHN) have anything to do with this gradual change? I
> > don't know, but I'm very curious.
> >
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 21:02:56 -0400
> >> From: Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
> >> Subject: [B-Greek] Ancient Greek Voice Forms
> >> To: B-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> >> Message-ID: <EA96F0F9-8CD9-402E-B594-89D63564113F at mac.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
> >>
> >> I have revised my web page on Ancient Greek Voice to include the following
> >> note
> >> and download link for an account of my views on the framework of the
ancient
> >> Greek voice system that I wrote for the current issue of the AGNT
> >> Newsletter:
> >>
> >> "Ancient Greek Voice Forms: Categorizing and Making Sense of Them": in The
> >> AGNT Project Report?Q1 2011: PDF of the quarterly newsletter of the AGNT
> >> Project. This is a terse, very compact formulation of a very complex issue.
> >> The longer I have pondered the forms and usage of ancient Greek verbal
> >> voice, the more convinced I have become of the validity of the framework
> >> into which I think the data best fit, while at the same time the more
> >> cognizant I have grown of the complexity of the data hitherto accounted for
> >> by the dubious doctrine of "deponency."
> >>
> >> URL: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/GrkVc.html
> >>
> >> Carl W. Conrad
> >> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
> B-Greek mailing list
> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
> B-Greek mailing list
> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/696 - Release Date: 02/21/2007 3:19
PM
More information about the B-Greek
mailing list