[B-Greek] Mt 26.26-28 [was: Re: Ephesians 2:8]

Louis Sorenson llsorenson at hotmail.com
Thu Apr 21 17:04:25 EDT 2011


Comments interspersed

Louis Sorenson



George,

>today, in a preparation towards the Pascal meal, I tool the lamb to
>the slaughtering house, giving them particular instructions that after
>the cut of the cut of the throat  the lamb should be upside down and
>the blood should be completely dry out of the body.
>Now I realize that during a sacrifice, the blood is completely
>different than the body. 
>Not only their is a physical distinction of the elements, but the
>meaning and the usage of each element in the sacrifice is different.
>Thus it makes sense the clear distinction in 26 as τοῦτό τὸ σῶμά μου
>and 27 as τοῦτο τὸ αἷμά μου.

Nikolae,

τρεφεις συ ιδιον αρνιον σου;
TREFEIS SU IDION ARNION SOU;

TO ETHOS TWN PANTWN HLLHNIKWN ESTIN TOUTO TO PRAGMA SOU;
τὸ ἔθος τῶν πάντων Ἑλληνίκων εστιν τοῦτο το πρᾶγμα σου;


> At embalming, the first step in arterial embalming is the the removal
>of blood and interstitial fluids, knows as drainage.
>Because of this Judaism, Muslims and Orthodox Christianity forbid the
>separation of blood from the body in preserving the uniqueness and
>allowing the decomposition and not preservation of the body at the
>same time.

>Do modern Greeks forbid embalming fluid?
οἱ ἆρα ἐνέστωτες Ἑλλήνικες τὸ αἶμα τοῦ νεκροῦ ἀρνεισοῦνται ἐξελκεῖσθαι;
OI ARA ENESTWTES ELLHNIKES TO AIMA TOU NEKROU ARNEISOUNTAI ECELKEISQAI;

> The sacrifice of blood is more important and blood was given to God
>only, and humans did not commune blood, but just the animal.
>It is also not permitted to to consume an animal that is killed in a
>way that its blood is not drained but contained in the animal.

>Also, this meal was not the last official meal of the Pasca with the
>sacrificial lamb and the azyma, but the first day of the feast (v.17)
>and for the sacrificial lamb common bread - arts - is used, and THIS
>bread - not any bread in general - τοῦτό ἐστι τὸ σῶμά μου· as the
>sacrificed body, separate entity from the blood.  Similarly, taking
>the cap gave them to drink the wine, and This wine - τοῦτο ἐστι τὸ
>αἷμά μου.

τί ἐστιν τὸ τέλειον δεῖπνον τοῦ πάσχου;
TI ESTIN TO TELEION DEIPNON TOU PASXOU

ο φιλος σου, Λεωνιδας 
Louis Sorenson


 On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 12:08 PM, George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 26Ἐσθιόντων δὲ αὐτῶν λαβὼν ὁ Ἰησοῦς ἄρτον καὶ εὐλογήσας ἔκλασεν καὶ δοὺς τοῖς
> μαθηταῖς εἶπεν· λάβετε φάγετε, τοῦτό ἐστιν τὸ σῶμά μου. 27καὶ λαβὼν ποτήριον καὶ
> εὐχαριστήσας ἔδωκεν αὐτοῖς λέγων· πίετε ἐξ αὐτοῦ πάντες, 28 τοῦτο γάρ ἐστιν τὸ
> αἷμά μου τῆς διαθήκης τὸ περὶ πολλῶν ἐκχυννόμενον εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν.
> 26 ESQIONTWN DE AUTWN LABWN hO IHSOUS ARTON KAI EULOGHSAS EKLASEN KAI DOUS TOIS
> MAQHTAIS EIPEN, "LABETE FAGETE, TOUTO ESTIN SWMA MOU."  27  KAI LABWN POTHRION
> KAI EUXARISTHSAS DEDWKEN AUTOIS LEGWN, "PIETE EC AUTOU PANTES  28 TOUTO GAR
> ESTIN TO hAIMA MOU THS DIAQHKHS TO PERI POLLWN EKXUNOMENON EIS AFESIN hAMARTIWN.
>
> I would think it would not refer to both elements.  Note that the cup is in a
> separate sentence introduced by a separate act of taking and blessing and
> giving.  I realize that the dogma is that Christ is fully present in both
> elements, but we are not discussing theology.
>
>
>
>  george
> gfsomsel
>
>
> … search for truth, hear truth,
> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
> defend the truth till death.
>
>
> - Jan Hus
> _________
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Eric S. Weiss <papaweiss1 at yahoo.com>
> To: b-greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Thu, April 21, 2011 8:52:06 AM
> Subject: [B-Greek] Ephesians 2:8
>
>> It refers to neither and it refers to both.
>> TOUTO is neuter--neither PISTEWS nor CHARITI are neuter.
>> They're both feminine.
>> Neuter demonstratives that do not have a neuter antecedent
>> can refer to an entire state of affairs:
>> (TH GAR CHARITI ESTE SESWSMENOI DIA PISTEWS) KAI TOUTO...
>> TOUTO refers to the entire event of salvation by grace through
>> faith.
> So then does the TOUTO in Matthew 26:26 refer to the act of the
> supper (i.e., Passover as a whole and/or those gathered at the
> Lord's Table - i.e., the church/Body of Christ) rather than to
> the bread specifically?
> Matthew 26:26 ESQIONTWN DE AUTWN LABWN hO IHSOUS ARTON KAI
> EULOGHSAS EKLASEN KAI DOUS TOIS MAQHTAIS EIPEN -
> LABETE FAGETE, TOUTO ESTIN TO SWMA MOU.
> (also see the similar Mark 14:22 and Luke 22:19)
> ARTON is masculine, but TOUTO is neuter.
> Or does the TOUTO forwardly agree with the neuter SWMA, even though
> it comes after TOUTO and not before it?
>
> - - -
> Eric S. Weiss
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