[B-Greek] σύν SUN: opposite meanings

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Tue Apr 26 00:02:13 EDT 2011


Your example doen't really mean "excluding."  It is "six men with me for a 
seventh"

 
τοαῦτʼ ἐπεύχου μὴ φιλοστόνως θεοῖς, 
μηδʼ ἑν ματαίοις κʼγρίοις ποιφύγμασιν: 
οὐ γάρ τι μᾶλλον μὴ φύτης τὸ μόρσιμον. 
 
ἐγὼ δέ γʼ ἀνδρας ἕξ ἐμοὶ συν ἑβδόμῳ 
 
ἀντηρέτας ἐχθροίσι τὸν μέταν τρόπον 
εἰς ἐπτατειχεῖς ἐξόδους τάξω μολών, 
πρὶν ἀγγέλους σπερξνούς τε καὶ ταχυρρόθους 
λόγους ἱκέσθαι καὶ φλέγειν χρείας ὕπο. 
 
TOAUT' EPEUXOU MH FO;PSTPMWS QEOIS,
MHD' EN MATAIOIS K'GRIOIS POIFUGMASIN: 
OU GAR TI MALLON MH FUTHS TO MORSIMON.  
 
EGW DE G' ANDRAS hEC EMOI SUN hEBDOMWi 
 
ANTHRETAS EXQROISI TON MEGAN TROPON 
EIS EPTATEIXEIS ECODOUS TACW MOLWN, 
PRIN AGGELOUS SPERXNOUS TE KAI TAXURROQOUS 
LOGOUS hIKESQAI KAI FLEGEIN XREIAS hUPO.  

I must confess that I have a little problem with some of this.  I suppose I need 
to read some more Aeschylus.  

 george
gfsomsel 


… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.


- Jan Hus
_________ 




________________________________
From: Daniel Buck <bucksburg at yahoo.com>
To: b greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 8:16:52 PM
Subject: [B-Greek] σύν SUN: opposite meanings

προπεμπόντων ἡμᾶς πάντων σὺν γυναιξὶν καὶ τέκνοις ἕω
PROPEMTONTWN hHMAS TANTWN SUN GUNAIXIn KAI TEKNOIS --Acts 21:5

I recently noticed a switch in translating SUN in Acts 21:35 from "and" to 
"including." Since these are mutually exclusive meanings in English, I checked 
Perseus to see if Greek was any different. Sure  enough:

8. including, “--” IG12.329.5, cf. 22.1388.85, 1407.12, al.;  “--” Th.2.13, cf. 
4.124, 5.26, 74, 7.42, 8.90, 95; "--” Ar.Fr.100;  “--” Lys.21.4, cf. 2; “--” 
Is.6.33, cf. 8.8,35, 11.42,46, Aeschin. 2.162, D.19.155, 27.23,al., 
Arist.HA525b15,17, Ath.19.6, Hipparch. 1.1.9, al., PSI10.1124.14 (ii A.D.). 


9. excluding, apart from, plus, "--" six with (but not including) me the  
seventh, A. Th.283; “--” Arist.HA 490a32; “--” D. 27.61; “--” together with . . 
, PEnteux.32.7, cf. 89.9 (iii  B.C.); “--” Ev.Luc.20.1, cf. Ep.Gal.5.24. 

(I deleted all the Greek text, but it can be read online 
at 
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=sun&la=greek#Perseus:text:1999.04.0057:entry=su/n-contents)



My question is, what are the contextual clues that indicate whether SUN means 
"including" or  "excluding?"

one of the examples for #8:
Isaeus 6:33 "he sold some goats with their goat-herd" (indistinguishable)
8: 8 "giving her a dowry of twenty-five minae including raiment and jewelry" 
(whole, including parts)
8: 35 "the fittings of his private residence, worth, including the slaves, 
about  

thirteen minae" (whole, including parts)

Daniel Buck
---
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