[B-Greek] the article TOU in Luke 3:23

Wong Hung Huen hwhhwong at gmail.com
Thu Feb 10 23:16:15 EST 2011


thanks for Carl and George's input. maybe this is the reason why TOU is put
in front of IWSHF at the end of verse 24. do you agree?

Luke 3:23     Καὶ αὐτὸς ἦν Ἰησοῦς ἀρχόμενος ὡσεὶ ἐτῶν τριάκοντα, ὢν υἱός, ὡς
ἐνομίζετο, Ἰωσὴφ τοῦ Ἠλὶ  24 τοῦ Μαθθὰτ τοῦ Λευὶ τοῦ Μελχὶ τοῦ Ἰανναὶ τοῦ
Ἰωσὴφ

[Luke 3:23 KAI AUTOS HN IHSOUS ARCOMENOS hWSEI ETWN TRIAKONTA, WN hUIOS, hWS
ENOMIZETO, IWSHF TOU HLI  24 TOU MAQQAT TOU LEUI TOU MELCI TOU IANNAI TOU
IWSHF]
2011/2/10 George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>

>   While I concur with Carl regarding the use of the article with
> expressions indicating descent, I would also note that it is by no means
> unknown for the simple genitive to be used without the article.  I cite only
> one passage which is selected as likewise being from the Gospel according to
> Luke though there are others as well.
>
>
> εἶπεν δὲ πρὸς αὐτὸν ὁ Ἰησοῦς ὅτι σήμερον σωτηρία τῷ οἴκῳ τούτῳ ἐγένετο,
> καθότι καὶ αὐτὸς υἱὸς Ἀβραάμ ἐστιν·
>
>
>
> EIPEN DE PROS AUTON hO IHSOUS hOTI SHMERON SWTHRIA TWi OIKWi TOUTWi
> EGENETO, KAQOTI KAI AUTOS hUIOS ABRAAM ESTIN.
>
>
>
> Note that like Ἰωσὴφ IWSHF in Lk 3.23 Ἀβραάμ ABRAAM is indeclinable but
> must be considered to be in the genitive.
>
>
> george
> gfsomsel
>
>
> … search for truth, hear truth,
> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
> defend the truth till death.
>
>
> - Jan Hus
> _________
>
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
> *To:* Wong Hung Huen <hwhhwong at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> *Sent:* Thu, February 10, 2011 6:52:55 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [B-Greek] the article TOU in Luke 3:23
>
>
> On Feb 10, 2011, at 8:49 AM, Carl Conrad wrote:
>
> >
> > On Feb 10, 2011, at 3:49 AM, Wong Hung Huen wrote:
> >
> >> dear all
> >> could anyone  tell me why there is no article tou in front of Joseph
> while
> >> throughout the list of the father/ancestors of Mary, there is always the
> >> presence of the article tou even up till "of Adam, of God"(Lk 3:38)?
> >
> > Luke 3:23     Καὶ αὐτὸς ἦν Ἰησοῦς ἀρχόμενος ὡσεὶ ἐτῶν τριάκοντα, ὢν υἱός,
> ὡς ἐνομίζετο, Ἰωσὴφ τοῦ Ἠλὶ  24 τοῦ Μαθθὰτ τοῦ Λευὶ τοῦ Μελχὶ τοῦ Ἰανναὶ τοῦ
> Ἰωσὴφ  25 τοῦ Ματταθίου τοῦ Ἀμὼς τοῦ Ναοὺμ τοῦ Ἑσλὶ τοῦ Ναγγαὶ  26 τοῦ Μάαθ
> τοῦ Ματταθίου τοῦ Σεμεῒν τοῦ Ἰωσὴχ τοῦ Ἰωδὰ  27 τοῦ Ἰωανὰν τοῦ Ῥησὰ τοῦ
> Ζοροβαβὲλ τοῦ Σαλαθιὴλ τοῦ Νηρὶ  28 τοῦ Μελχὶ τοῦ Ἀδδὶ τοῦ Κωσὰμ τοῦ Ἐλμαδὰμ
> τοῦ Ἢρ  29 τοῦ Ἰησοῦ τοῦ Ἐλιέζερ τοῦ Ἰωρὶμ τοῦ Μαθθὰτ τοῦ Λευὶ  30 τοῦ
> Συμεὼν τοῦ Ἰούδα τοῦ Ἰωσὴφ τοῦ Ἰωνὰμ τοῦ Ἐλιακὶμ  31 τοῦ Μελεὰ τοῦ Μεννὰ τοῦ
> Ματταθὰ τοῦ Ναθὰμ τοῦ Δαυὶδ  32 τοῦ Ἰεσσαὶ τοῦ Ἰωβὴδ τοῦ Βόος τοῦ Σαλὰ τοῦ
> Ναασσὼν  33 τοῦ Ἀμιναδὰβ τοῦ Ἀδμὶν τοῦ Ἀρνὶ τοῦ Ἑσρὼμ τοῦ Φάρες τοῦ Ἰούδα
> 34 τοῦ Ἰακὼβ τοῦ Ἰσαὰκ τοῦ Ἀβραὰμ τοῦ Θάρα τοῦ Ναχὼρ  35 τοῦ Σεροὺχ τοῦ
> Ῥαγαὺ τοῦ Φάλεκ τοῦ Ἔβερ τοῦ Σαλὰ  36 τοῦ Καϊνὰμ τοῦ Ἀρφαξὰδ τοῦ Σὴμ τοῦ Νῶε
> τοῦ Λάμεχ  37 τοῦ Μαθουσαλὰ τοῦ Ἑνὼχ τοῦ Ἰάρετ τοῦ Μαλελεὴλ τοῦ Καϊνὰμ  38
> τοῦ Ἐνὼς τοῦ Σὴθ τοῦ Ἀδὰμ τοῦ θεοῦ.
> > [Luke 3:23 KAI AUTOS HN IHSOUS ARCOMENOS hWSEI ETWN TRIAKONTA, WN hUIOS,
> hWS ENOMIZETO, IWSHF TOU HLI  24 TOU MAQQAT TOU LEUI TOU MELCI TOU IANNAI
> TOU IWSHF  25 TOU MATTAQIOU TOU AMWS TOU NAOUM TOU hESLI TOU NAGGAI  26 TOU
> MAAQ TOU MATTAQIOU TOU SEMEI+N TOU IWSHC TOU IWDA  27 TOU IWANAN TOU hRHSA
> TOU ZOROBABEL TOU SALAQIHL TOU NHRI  28 TOU MELCI TOU ADDI TOU KWSAM TOU
> ELMADAM TOU HR  29 TOU IHSOU TOU ELIEZER TOU IWRIM TOU MAQQAT TOU LEUI  30
> TOU SUMEWN TOU IOUDA TOU IWSHF TOU IWNAM TOU ELIAKIM  31 TOU MELEA TOU MENNA
> TOU MATTAQA TOU NAQAM TOU DAUID  32 TOU IESSAI TOU IWBHD TOU BOOS TOU SALA
> TOU NAASSWN  33 TOU AMINADAB TOU ADMIN TOU ARNI TOU hESRWM TOU FARES TOU
> IOUDA  34 TOU IAKWB TOU ISAAK TOU ABRAAM TOU QARA TOU NACWR  35 TOU SEROUC
> TOU hRAGAU TOU FALEK TOU EBER TOU SALA  36 TOU KAI+NAM TOU ARFAXAD TOU SHM
> TOU NWE TOU LAMEC  37 TOU MAQOUSALA TOU hENWC TOU IARET TOU MALELEHL TOU
> KAI+NAM  38 TOU ENWS TOU SHQ TOU ADAM TOU QEOU.]
> >
> > IWSHF is indeclinable; it must be genitive here in the construction with
> WN hUIOS; the other instances of TOU are
>
> ... regular expressions in names "X TOU Y" = "X son of Y."
>
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>
>
>
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