[B-Greek] OUDEIS
Carl Conrad
cwconrad2 at mac.com
Fri Feb 11 06:31:48 EST 2011
On Feb 10, 2011, at 6:59 PM, Barry H. wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Conrad" <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
> To: "nebarry" <nebarry at verizon.net>
> Cc: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 12:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] OUDEIS
>
>
>
> On Feb 10, 2011, at 12:18 PM, nebarry wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know if there is anywhere attested in ancient Greek literature the neuter plural of ουδείς, OUDEIS? Smyth and LSJ list masculine plurals, but not neuter, and I can remember no example myself.
>
> Nor can I; LSJ doesn't indicate it either. I think it would have to be the adjectival usage, like Lat. NULLA ...
>
>> Secondly, the following is a sentence from the venerable Crosby and Schaeffer, chapter 64. Most of C&S's exercises are adapted from Greek literature. Does anyone know the provenance of this one?
>>
>> οποτε δε τινα ευροι χρηματα πολλα εκ του δικαιου λαμβανοντα, ουποτε ουδενα απηρειτο, αλλ αει πορσεδιδου. hOPOTE DE TINA hEUROI CRHMATA POLLA EK TOU DIKAIOU LAMBANONTA, OUPOTE OUDENA AFHiREITO, ALL' AEI PROSEDIDOU.
>
>>> Interesting; it's good Attic -- using the optative in the protasis of a past general condition; if I were to run a TLG search, I'd start looking in Plutarch's Lives, I think; this has to be said of somebody with power and wealth, like a Roman emperor.<<
>
> Somebody on the Classics list nailed it -- it looks adapted from Xen. Ana. 1.9.19. I recently re-read that, so that the C&S exercise looked hauntingly familiar, but I couldn't place it.
OK, I see it:
[1.9.19] εἰ δέ τινα ὁρἠιη δεινὸν ὄντα οἰκονόμον ἐκ τοῦ δικαίου καὶ κατασκευάζοντά τε ἧς ἄρχοι χώρας καὶ προσόδους ποιοῦντα, οὐδένα ἂν πώποτε ἀφείλετο, ἀλλ᾽ ἀεὶ πλείω προσεδίδου [1.9.19] EI DE TINA hORH)IH DEINON ONTA OIKONOMON EK TOU DIKAIOU KAI KATASKEUAZONTA TE hHS ARCOI CWRAS KAI PROSODOUS POIOUNTA, OUDENA AN PWPOTE AFEILETO, ALL᾽ AEI PLEIW PROSEDIDOU]
And what's more, I also see that it is precisely here that the n. pl. acc. οὐδένα [OUDENA] is found -- am I the only one who can't see what's staring me in the face? I had assumed that this OUDENA was a masculine singular accusative, "He never took (it) away from anyone" -- but now I see it can construe with CRHMATA in the Crosby & Schaeffer-cited paraphrase. On the other hand, upon checking the usage of AFAIROUMAI in LSJ it looks like it construes with an accusative of the person and of the thing taken, which means that the OUDENA could still be a masculine singular accusative. I guess that I didn't see the two questions Barry was raising were two parts of a single question. This morning I see that Barry raised the question also on the Classics list and there was a fruitful discussion there.
I still appears, however, that the neuter plural of OUDEIS is used only adjectivally, not as a substantive, so that "many nothings" and "sweet nothings" won't quite literally go into Greek. Of course, I could be wrong on that too. GHRASKW AEI POLLA DIDASKOMENOS.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
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