[B-Greek] Mark 15:12

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Wed Feb 16 03:06:30 EST 2011


Let's try that quotation from BDF §157 again

157. An accusative of object and a predicate accusative are used with the 
following concepts, corresponding to classical usage: (1) ‘to have as’: A 13:5 

 τί ποιήσεις τὸν ἀγρόν; LXX seldom (Helb., Kas. 7), e.g. Num 24:14 τί ποιήσεις … 
τὸν λαόν σου;, Mk 15:12 (but dat. D); pass. also A 12:18 τί ὁ Πέτρος 
ἐγένετο(§299(2)). ‘To do something to somebody’ τινί τιMt 21:40, Lk 20:15, A 
9:13, Herm Sim 5.2.2, 9.11.8, Apocr. Gos. (Ghedini, Vang. ap. 450); also A 16:28 
μηδὲν πράξῃς(instead of ποιήσῃς) σεαυτῷ κακόν, cf. Mt 13:14 and Lk 18:31 
(§188(1)); Latinism? (ποιεῖν τινί τι‘to do something for somebody’ (Mk 7:12, 
10:36) is also good Att. ‘To do something to somebody’ is also expressed by π. 
τι ἔν τινιMt 17:12 (ἐνom. SD al.), Lk 23:31, or εἴς τινα(Hdt.; K.–G. i 324) Jn 
15:21 (ὑμῖνAD2 al.), or μετά τινος(§206(3)); cf. καλὸν ἔργον ἠργάσατο ἐν ἐμοίMk 
14:6, εἰς ἐμέMt 26:10 (cf. 3 Jn 5; Att. ἐργ.with double acc.), οὕτως γένηται ἐν 
ἐμοί1 C 9:15, cf. Lk 21:31. LXX ποιεῖν τιwith τινι, ἔν τινι, ἐπί τινα, μετά 
τινος, εἴς τινα(seldom; Helb., Kas. 7), acc. is virtually limited to εὖ 
ποιεῖν(s. 

 supra); Johannessohn i 61f.ne quid tibi malum feceris; cf. vg nihil tibi m. 
f.). The acc. would have been used in Att. throughout (cf. §151(1)), while (1) 
Herm Sim 1.4 εἶχον Ἰωάνην ὑπηρέτην; ‘to take as’: Ja 5:10 ὑπόδειγμα λάβετε τοὺς 
προφήτας; ‘to make into’: Jn 6:15 ποιεῖν αὐτὸν βασιλέα(many vv.ll.), H 1:2 ὃν 
ἔθηκεν κληρονόμον, Lk 12:14 τίς με κατέστησεν κριτήν; (2) ‘To designate as, 
call’: Jn 10:35 ἐκείνους εἶπεν θεούς, Lk 1:59 ἐκάλουν αὐτὸ Ζαχαρίαν; ‘to 
pretend’: Lk 20:20 ὑποκρινομένους ἑαυτοὺς δικαίους(D and lat, otherwise with 
εἶναι, §397(2)); ‘to confess’: Jn 9:22 αὐτὸν ὁμολογήσῃ Χριστόν(with εἶναιD), 1 
Jn 4:2 (acc. with inf. B), 2 Jn 7, R 10:9. (3) ‘To regard as’: Ph 3:7 ταῦτα 
ἥγημαι ζημίαν(8 with εἶναι, as LXX Job 30:1 A, Dit., Syll.3 831.13 [117 bc]). 
(4) ‘To prove to be’: G 2:18 παραβάτην ἐμαυτὸν συνιστάνω. (5) Εἰςwith the 
accusative is sometimes used for the predicate accusative as for the predicate 
nominative (§145). Semitic influence is unmistakable, although Greek had 
approximations to this usage (Mlt. 71f. [110]; Raderm.2 21, 122); the same is 
true of ὡςwhich may be inserted before the predicate. S. §145.—Helb., Kas. 
50–68; Mayser ii 2, 320f.george
gfsomsel 


… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.


- Jan Hus
_________ 




________________________________
From: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
To: A. J. Birch <AJB1212 at ono.com>; B-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wed, February 16, 2011 12:51:54 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Mark 15:12

157. An accusative of object and a predicate accusative are used with the 
following concepts, corresponding to classical usage: (1) ‘to have as’: A 13:5 
(1) Herm Sim 1.4 

Blass, Friedrich, Albert Debrunner and Robert Walter Funk. A Greek Grammar of 
the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature §157. Chicago: University 

of Chicago Press, 1961.
 
See Hermas Sim 1.4 τί ποιήσεις σου τὸν ἀγρὸν ... TI POIHSEIS SOU TON AGRON ... 
"What will you do with your field ..."

 george
gfsomsel 


… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.


- Jan Hus
_________ 




________________________________
From: A. J. Birch <AJB1212 at ono.com>
To: B-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wed, February 16, 2011 12:15:00 AM
Subject: [B-Greek] Mark 15:12

Dear B-Greekers,

"O DE PILATOS PALIN APOKRIQEIS ELEGEN AUTOIS, TI OUN [QELETE] POIHSW [ON LEGETE] 

TON BASILEA TWN IOUDAIWN;" (Mark 15:12).

Instead of the accusative "TON BASILEA", would the dative - for indirect object 
- not have been more natural?

Thankyou,

Andrew J. Birch.
Palma de Mallorca, Spain
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εἶχον Ἰωάνην ὑπηρέτην; ‘to take as’: Ja 5:10 ὑπόδειγμα λάβετε τοὺς προφήτας; ‘to 

make into’: Jn 6:15 ποιεῖν αὐτὸν βασιλέα(many vv.ll.), H 1:2 ὃν ἔθηκεν 
κληρονόμον, Lk 12:14 τίς με κατέστησεν κριτήν; (2) ‘To designate as, call’: Jn 
10:35 ἐκείνους εἶπεν θεούς, Lk 1:59 ἐκάλουν αὐτὸ Ζαχαρίαν; ‘to pretend’: Lk 
20:20 ὑποκρινομένους ἑαυτοὺς δικαίους(D and lat, otherwise with εἶναι, §397(2)); 

‘to confess’: Jn 9:22 αὐτὸν ὁμολογήσῃ Χριστόν(with εἶναιD), 1 Jn 4:2 (acc. with 
inf. B), 2 Jn 7, R 10:9. (3) ‘To regard as’: Ph 3:7 ταῦτα ἥγημαι ζημίαν(8 with 
εἶναι, as LXX Job 30:1 A, Dit., Syll.3 831.13 [117 bc]). (4) ‘To prove to be’: G 

2:18 παραβάτην ἐμαυτὸν συνιστάνω. (5) Εἰςwith the accusative is sometimes used 
for the predicate accusative as for the predicate nominative (§145). Semitic 
influence is unmistakable, although Greek had approximations to this usage (Mlt. 

71f. [110]; Raderm.2 21, 122); the same is true of ὡςwhich may be inserted 
before the predicate. S. §145.—Helb., Kas. 50–68; Mayser ii 2, 320f.τί ποιήσεις 
τὸν ἀγρόν; LXX seldom (Helb., Kas. 7), e.g. Num 24:14 τί ποιήσεις … τὸν λαόν 
σου;, Mk 15:12 (but dat. D); pass. also A 12:18 τί ὁ Πέτρος ἐγένετο(§299(2)). 
‘To do something to somebody’ τινί τιMt 21:40, Lk 20:15, A 9:13, Herm Sim 5.2.2, 

9.11.8, Apocr. Gos. (Ghedini, Vang. ap. 450); also A 16:28 μηδὲν πράξῃς(instead 
of ποιήσῃς) σεαυτῷ κακόν, cf. Mt 13:14 and Lk 18:31 (§188(1)); Latinism? (ποιεῖν 

τινί τι‘to do something for somebody’ (Mk 7:12, 10:36) is also good Att. ‘To do 
something to somebody’ is also expressed by π. τι ἔν τινιMt 17:12 (ἐνom. SD 
al.), Lk 23:31, or εἴς τινα(Hdt.; K.–G. i 324) Jn 15:21 (ὑμῖνAD2 al.), or μετά 
τινος(§206(3)); cf. καλὸν ἔργον ἠργάσατο ἐν ἐμοίMk 14:6, εἰς ἐμέMt 26:10 (cf. 3 
Jn 5; Att. ἐργ.with double acc.), οὕτως γένηται ἐν ἐμοί1 C 9:15, cf. Lk 21:31. 
LXX ποιεῖν τιwith τινι, ἔν τινι, ἐπί τινα, μετά τινος, εἴς τινα(seldom; Helb., 
Kas. 7), acc. is virtually limited to εὖ ποιεῖν(s.  supra); Johannessohn i 
61f.ne quid tibi malum feceris; cf. vg nihil tibi m. f.). The acc. would have 
been used in Att. throughout (cf. §151(1)), while 



      
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