[B-Greek] Luke 11:7 from within esothen

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Mon Jan 3 16:04:49 EST 2011


Perhaps I didn't make myself plain enough.  The context of the story indicates 
that the man inside was NOT simply thinking that he should tell his neighbor to 
go away.  

 george
gfsomsel 


… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.


- Jan Hus
_________ 




________________________________
From: Greg Marquez <marquezgoyo at gmail.com>
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org; George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
Sent: Mon, January 3, 2011 2:02:15 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Luke 11:7 from within esothen

I agree that the context is the issue. I'm suggesting that the context choice is 
between:  

The man inside shouted at his friend to go away, or
The man inside thought, I should tell my friend to go away.

I think the second fits the point of the story better particularly since it 
avoids the strained interpretations of anaideia as involving some kind of 
repetitiveness. If the man merely thought it then there is little basis for 
assuming some kind of repetitive asking on the part of the friend who needed 
bread.

Greg Marquez
MarquezGoyo at gmail.com
www.ivChristianCenter.com



On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:38 AM, George F Somsel wrote:

κἀκεῖνος ἔσωθεν ἀποκριθεὶς εἴπῃ· μή μοι κόπους πάρεχε· ἤδη ἡ θύρα κέκλεισται καὶ 
τὰ παιδία μου μετʼ ἐμοῦ εἰς τὴν κοίτην εἰσίν· οὐ δύναμαι ἀναστὰς δοῦναί σοι.
>KAKEINOS ESWQEN APOKRIQEIS EIPHi, "MH MOI KOPOUS PAREXE; HDH hH QURA KEKLEISTAI 
>KAI TA PAIDIA MOU MET' EMOU EIS THN KOITHN EISIN; OU DUNAMAI ANASTAS DOUNAI 
>SOI."
>
>As I've said on more than one occassion, "Context is king."  While I suppose 
>ἔσωθεν ESWQEN might be used for "to himself", I don't think that likely.   Cf. 
>Lk 11.39, but even there it seems that the comparison is to the inside of a cup 
>as opposed to the outside.  In Lk 7.39 when it definitely refers to one's 
>"conversing" with himself it uses ἐν ἑαυτῷ EN hEAUTWi. 
> 
>Now, for the context:
> 
>
>Notice that the one man is inside while we still need to determine where the 
>other might be (though the suspicion is that he would be outside since the 
>householder says "My chilren are in bed together with me."  Does he mean they 
>are all in one bed?  Doubtful.  He probably simply means "We've all gone to 
>bed."  Then note that he also says "The door is locked."  This would be of 
>little significance if he had opened the door and let his neighbor in.  The 
>picture we have then is that the householder is inside speaking to his neighbor 
>who is outside and not simply talking to himself.
> 
>
>
> george
>gfsomsel 
>
>
>… search for truth, hear truth, 
>learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
>defend the truth till death.
>
>
>- Jan Hus
>_________ 
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________
From: Greg Marquez <marquezgoyo at gmail.com>
>To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>Sent: Mon, January 3, 2011 11:34:49 AM
>Subject: [B-Greek] Luke 11:7 from within esothen
>
>Must esothen in Luke 11:7 refer to within the house or can it refer to within 
>the man. In other words, can it mean that he said the words in himself, i.e. he 
>thought them as opposed to the traditional interpretation that he spoke them 
>outloud from within the house?  If Dr. Randall Buth is monitoring the list at 
>this time I'd appreciate any insights the hebrew might add.
>
>kakeinos esothen apokritheis eipē mē moi kopous pareche ēdē ē thura kekleistai 
>kai ta paidia mou met emou eis tēn koitēn eisin ou dunamai anastas dounai soi
>
>Thanks,
>
>Greg Marquez
>MarquezGoyo at Gmail.com
>www.ivChristianCenter.com
>---
>B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
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>
>
>



      


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