[B-Greek] "A working knowledge of Biblical Greek"

Carl Conrad cwconrad2 at mac.com
Thu May 12 13:14:50 EDT 2011


I'm sorry that I failed to make sufficiently clear the intent in my original post 
indicated by this subject header. Let me try to be briefer and clearer:

1. The heart of B-Greek discussion I have always understood to be
Biblical Greek language and the Biblical Greek text. Moreover, I
understand (Biblical) Greek pedagogy to be no insignificant aspect
of Biblical Greek language. What I was remarking on was the 
very heavy weighting of posts in recent months toward discussion
of (Biblical) Greek pedagogy -- proportionate to discussion of 
structures and usage  of the Greek language and discussion of 
particular Biblical Greek texts.

2. The concern that brought me to post my message with respect
specifically to the phrase, "a working knowledge of Biblical Greek,"
is that we have had some inquiries and suggestions about Biblical
Greek texts that seem to have been posted by list-members whose
grasp of Biblical Greek appears not to be a "working
knowledge." I thought I had indicated that I don't consider
"decoding Greek texts" as if they were a cryptogram to be solved 
 was intended constitutes "a working knowledge of Biblical Greek."

3. It was certainly not my intent to discourage discussion of pedagogy
in this forum. Those who find that focus disproportionate in the
extreme can vote with their feet and unsubscribe.


On May 12, 2011, at 10:31 AM, Paul D. Nitz wrote:

> C. Conrad,
> 
> I appreciate your active guidance of the list discussion.  Without that,
> things degenerate. I have no serious concern with the recent post on the
> purpose of this list-serve.  But I did want to throw in an opinion on
> one word: "but."
> 
> << Pedagogy... [is] certainly a proper concern of B-Greek discussion.
> << But
> << the heart of B-Greek discussion has always been two fundamental areas:
> << (1) understanding the Biblical Greek LANGUAGE, and
> << (2) understanding the Biblical Greek TEXT.
> 
> If we looked underneath the majority of posts about pedagogy (primers,
> pronunciation, methodology), I think we would something that is at the heart
> of B-Greek: understanding rather than decoding Greek.  If this desire to
> understand were not the heart, if we were all simply decoders, I don't think
> we wouldn't be interested in a list serve. (Decoders would just get cranky
> with one another quibbling about the latest term for a grammatical 
> exception.)
> 
> I hope I'm not nit-picking.  The post quoted above does acknowledge that
> pedagy is a proper concern.  Still, that word "but" can be powerfully
> discouraging.  I'd vote for "and" (or even better "γαρ" !)
> 
> __Pedagogy is a proper concern of B-Greek
> __and
> __fits well with the heart of B-Greek:
> __understanding the language and text.
> 
> Yours,
> PD Nitz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Carl Conrad" <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
> To: "B-Greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 2:38 PM
> Subject: [B-Greek] "A working knowledge of Biblical Greek"
> 
> 
> Discussion in this forum is governed by the rules set forth in the B-Greek
> FAQ, which is occasionally posted (probably should be posted more regularly)
> here,and which is accessible at: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/faq.html
> 
> I would like to call particular attention to a couple of statements right
> atthe beginning of our FAQ and to clarify how our administrative
> staffunderstands these statements.
> 
> Our FAQ begins with the simple descriptive statement: "B-GREEK is a mailing
> list for scholars and students of Biblical Greek."
> 
> It continues to describe the community of B-Greek as we believe the original
> founder, David Marotta of the University of Virginia, seems to have
> conceived it: " ... an eclectic group of beginning students and veteran
> teachers, lay persons and clergy, conservatives and liberals, earnest
> inquirers and academic scholars -- equally committed to probing the Biblical
> text in the original Koiné, and jointly exploring the mysteries and
> probabilities of Biblical Greek morphology and syntax."
> 
> The group thus described includes persons whose competence in Biblical Greek
> ranges across a pretty broad spectrum, "beginning students and veteran
> teachers." However, the second paragraph was intended to clarify what is
> expected of those who post questions about the Biblical Greek text to this
> list:
> 
> "Anyone interested in New Testament Studies is invited to subscribe, but
> list-members will be assumed to have at least a working knowledge of
> Biblical Greek. While "lurkers" are welcome to receive and read list
> correspondence, posts to the list are expected to pose questions about
> Biblical Greek, not general questions or opinions about doctrine or the
> meaning of the English text. Even basic questions are welcome, provided they
> are really about the meaning of the Greek text. This is not a general
> discussion list for Biblical matters. While one need not be a Greek scholar
> to subscribe, one should at least be taking the first serious steps in the
> study of Biblical Greek."
> 
> What do we mean by "the first serious steps in the study of Biblical Greek"?
> I should think that one engaged in a beginners' course in Biblical Greek
> might seek answers from more experienced B-Greekers about morphology, basic
> syntactic structures, the mechanics of Biblical Greek language. I have the
> impression, however, that quite a few beginning students of Biblical Greek
> in our forum are self-teaching or self-taught -- and there are some splendid
> examples of success in that endeavor. More specifically, I would understand
> self-teaching in Biblical Greek to involve systematic and industrious
> progress through a course textbook and exercises, and I would NOT count as
> "first serious steps" an endeavor by means of interlinear translations and
> glossaries -- or data gleaned from a Biblical software package that can
> match a tagged Greek text with one or more modern-language versions to piece
> together how the pieces of Greek sentences in a NT or LXX text fit together
> to yield an intelligible sense. One ought to be in the serious process of
> learning to read Greek rather than in a process of decoding a Biblical Greek
> text as one would solve a cryptogram as an entertaining puzzle.
> 
> Much of the discussion on B-Greek for the past several months has focused on
> Biblical Greek Pedagogy: questions of textbooks, pronunciation, audio-visual
> tools, methodologies, etc. That's certainly a proper concern of B-Greek
> discussion. But the heart of B-Greek discussion has always been two
> fundamental areas: (1) understanding the Biblical Greek LANGUAGE, and (2)
> understanding the Biblical Greek TEXT. I think we should recognize a
> distinction between BEGINNERS' FORUM questions about the mechanics of
> Biblical Greek -- the sort of questions that are asked and answered in the
> classroom when the textbook doesn't provide sufficiently clear answers and
> those topics that do indeed require some consolidated grasp of Biblical
> Koine Greek.
> Questions about the meaning of specific Biblical Greek texts really should
> be raised by people with "a working knowledge of Biblical Greek." Moreover,
> the questions should clearly be about the Greek text, not about whether this
> or that modern-language version is right or wrong. My own observation,
> rightly or wrongly, has been that when the question is raised by citation of
> two or more versions of a passage rather than about the Greek text itself,
> it commonly means that the poster of the question probably doesn't know
> enough Greek to ask the question directly about the Greek -- and may not be
> in a position to understand the answers posted in response to such a
> question.
> 
> My intention in this post has not been to start a new thread on this matter;
> rather it is to clarify what we mean when we say that B-Greek "list-members
> will be assumed to have at least a working knowledge of Biblical Greek" and
> that it is "not a general discussion list for Biblical matters." It's a list
> for people who know enough Biblical Greek to raise and discuss matters
> concerning Biblical Greek language and Biblical Greek texts. We have more
> than 1700 subscribers, and that means hundreds of "lurkers" who evidently
> find the discussion on B-Greek meaningful enough to want to receive either
> individual messages or digests. That's fine, but those who wish to
> participate actively in the discussion should really be students of Biblical
> Greek -- beginning, intermediate, or advanced; those who are seriously
> engaged in the actual study of Biblical Greek
> 
> Carl W. Conrad
> Co-Chair, B-Greek List
> 
> ---
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> 
> ---
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Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)





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