[B-Greek] How Markos reads the LXX (was future indicative inJonah 1:11 (Joseph Justiss)

Mark Lightman lightmanmark at yahoo.com
Sat May 21 12:43:38 EDT 2011


No problem.  We're good. 

Mark L



               

FWSFOROS MARKOS

--- On Sat, 5/21/11, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon at historian.net> wrote:

From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon at historian.net>
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] How Markos reads the LXX (was future indicative inJonah 1:11 (Joseph Justiss)
To: "Mark Lightman" <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>, "Albert Pietersma" <albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca>
Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Saturday, May 21, 2011, 10:32 AM


 


OK, Mark. I was expecting a response based more on scholarship rather 
than  personal faith “perceptions” so there would be no sense in my 
addressing misperceptions.  At least I know where this paradigm comes 
from.
 
Thanks
 
Jack


 

From: Mark Lightman 
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:39 AM
To: Albert Pietersma ; Jack Kilmon 

Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org 
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] How Markos reads the LXX (was future 
indicative inJonah 1:11 (Joseph Justiss)
 


  
  
    
      
      
        
        
          Jack wrote

<I have been 
            following this thread and I am not sure I am getting the sense of 
            this so I need your help on this.>

Hi, Jack,

If the 
            world really does end today, are you sure THIS is how you want to 
            spend the day? 

<I am not quite grasping how the source 
            language can be ignored in an attempt to understand the sense of the 
            Greek...>

I guess I'm trying to read the LXX the way the 
            God-fearers did, who presumably did not know Hebrew.

< 
            ...particularly when a text like Mark was written by someone whose 
            first language was Aramaic and whose Greek demonstrates Aramaic 
            syntax and structure.>

If you begin with the assumption 
            that Mark spoke Aramaic, you are going to find
semitisms.  
            If you begin with the assumption that he spoke Latin you can 
            find
Latinisms.  If you begin with the assumption that he 
            spoke Greek you will just
find Koine Greek.  "Very like a 
            whale."  I have no idea what Mark's first language 
            was.


<BIBLICAL Greek, is, after all, a translational 
            Greek of Semitic materials, is it not?>

It may be. We had 
            a guy here on B-Greek a while back who was convinced that
even 
            Paul could not have written his letters in Greek.  What was 
            funny about this
guy was that he wasn't sure if Paul wrote in 
            Hebrew or Aramaic or Latin (Latin!) but
he insisted he did not 
            write in Greek.  This allowed the guy to say that the 
            Greek
NT as we have it now is a "translation of a translation" 
            and that only he knew what
the original New Testament REALLY 
            meant. 

<Are you talking about a Greek for Greek's sake 
            only method regardless of original source material sense and 
            content?>

I'm not, no, but there is that old joke:  
            If the LXX was good enough for Moses, it's good 
enough for 
            me.

ερρωσο, ω φιλε μου.


Mark L


FWSFOROS 
            MARKOS

--- On Sat, 5/21/11, Jack Kilmon 
            <jkilmon at historian.net> wrote:

            
From: 
              Jack Kilmon <jkilmon at historian.net>
Subject: Re: 
              [B-Greek] How Markos reads the LXX (was future indicative inJonah 
              1:11 (Joseph Justiss)
To: "Albert Pietersma" 
              <albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca>, "Mark Lightman" 
              <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>
Cc: 
              b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Saturday, May 21, 2011, 7:39 
              AM


              

-----Original Message----- 
              From: Albert Pietersma
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:52 
              PM
To: Mark Lightman
Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: 
              [B-Greek] How Markos reads the LXX (was future indicative inJonah 
              1:11 (Joseph Justiss)

Mark,
If  you have in mind 
              that we must read the Greek of the LXX in terms
of the Greek 
              language of the period, I couldn't agree more and can
only wish 
              that more scholars (including Septuagint scholars) would do
the 
              same.  Though at times one may turn to the source language 
              to
arbitrate between existing senses of Greek words, at no 
              point ought
one superimpose a Hebrew sense on a Greek word 
              simply because Hebrew X
happens to be paired with Greek Y in 
              translation.


JK]  I have been following this 
              thread and I am not sure I am getting the sense of this so I need 
              your help on this.  The LXX was a translation of Early 
              Biblical Hebrew (EBH) texts (the Pentateuch) in the Greek of the 
              3rd century BCE in use in the ANE.  Christians refer to any 
              Greek translations of the remaining Navi'im and Ketuvim as 
              "Septuagint" but they are more accurately called "Old Greek" 
              translations (Cross) done over another two or three centuries from 
              variant Hebrew and Aramaic (Daniel) exemplar texts and they append 
              the books of the New Testament, all authored in Greek of varying 
              competency from the 70's CE to 150 CE some of which is also 
              translational Greek from Hebrew LXX  EBH or LBH texts and 
              Aramaic sources for the Jesus materials.  I am not quite 
              grasping how the source language can be ignored in an attempt to 
              understand the sense of the Greek, particularly when a text like 
              Mark was written by someone whose first language was Aramaic and 
              whose Greek demonstrates Aramaic syntax and structure.  
              Doesn't the Semitic sense of a word or phrase  being 
              translated assist in understanding the Greek translation?  
              Are you talking about a Greek for Greek's sake only method 
              regardless of original source material sense and 
              content?

BIBLICAL Greek, is, after all, a translational 
              Greek of Semitic materials, is it 
              not?

Best,

Jack

Jack Kilmon
San Antonio, 
              TX 

 


More information about the B-Greek mailing list