[B-Greek] John 3.12 to 3.13 transition

Philemon Zachariou ntgreek at att.net
Wed May 25 01:58:22 EDT 2011


Without
the connecting words at the beginning of v. 3 (Ἀπεκρίθη ὁ Ἰησοῦς καὶ εἶπεν
αὐτῷ), it would seem that there is really no connection between Nocodemus’
acollades in v. 2 and Jesus’ actual response (Ἀμὴν ἀμὴν … ἐὰν μή τις γενηθῇ
ἀνωθεν …). The connection becomes obvious only because we know that Jesus did
respond to Nicodemus in that manner, but certainly not because of any
continuity of thought. In other words, here, too, one might say, there is a
90-degree turn. Yet we know that that’s how Jesus responded to
Nicodemus.

 
In
v.13 we may not have any connecting words (as we do in v. 3), but that does not
necessarily call for a paragraph break. From a stylistic standpoint we might
see v. 13 as the beginning of a new paragraph, but contextually we still see
Jesus talking about heavenly matters and truths related to ἄνωθεν. I am not aware of any translation that shows a paragraph break here, though, in my opinion, a break would serve no purpose.
 
Philemon
Zachariou


________________________________
From: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
To: Eddie Mishoe <edmishoe at yahoo.com>; B Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] John 3.12 to 3.13 transition

It seems to me that a full break would do violence to the text.  In 3.12 we see 
a question regarding one's ability to speak regarding one's knowledge of τὰ 
ἐπουράνια in contrast to the τὰ ἐπίγεια with the acceptance of the 
proposition that one can only speak regarding those things of which one has 
knowledge.  In v 13 it asserts that there is only one who has had experience of 
τὰ ἐπουράνια, viz the one who came down from heaven -- ὁ υἱος τοῦ 
ἀνθρώπου, κτλ.  Jesus is thereby claiming to be this son of man who has come 
down from heaven with a knowledge of heavenly matters concerning which he is 
therefore qualified to speak.  A full break would therefore do violence to the 
argument.

 george
gfsomsel 


… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.


- Jan Hus
_________ 




________________________________
From: Eddie Mishoe <edmishoe at yahoo.com>
To: B Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 9:16:43 PM
Subject: [B-Greek] John 3.12 to 3.13 transition

Please see below John 3.9-14 for context.

Most translations I checked do not see a paragraph break after John 3.12. The 
abrupt change in subject seems too severe to me to join verse 13 to 12 as if we 
are to read verse 13 as the next sentence in this paragraph. What would be the 
justification for NOT seeing a full break at this 90 degree turn by John at the 
conclusion of verse 12? There is no continuation of previously developed 
material, right? Does anyone have a translation that does make a paragraph break 
after 3.12?


9απεκριθη νικοδημος και ειπεν αυτω πως δυναται ταυτα γενεσθαι     10απεκριθη 
ιησους και ειπεν αυτω συ ει ο διδασκαλος του ισραηλ και ταυτα ου γινωσκεις     
11αμην αμην λεγω σοι οτι ο οιδαμεν λαλουμεν και ο εωρακαμεν μαρτυρουμεν και την 
μαρτυριαν ημων ου λαμβανετε     12ει τα επιγεια ειπον υμιν και ου πιστευετε πως 
εαν ειπω υμιν τα επουρανια πιστευσετε
Full Break

     13και ουδεις αναβεβηκεν εις τον ουρανον ει μη ο εκ του ουρανου καταβας ο 
υιος του ανθρωπου     14και καθως μωυσης υψωσεν τον οφιν εν τη ερημω ουτως 
υψωθηναι δει τον υιον του ανθρωπου

Eddie Mishoe
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