[b-greek] Re: Rom.1:5: hUPAKOH PISTEWS

From: Rob Matlack (rmatlack@juno.com)
Date: Fri Sep 08 2000 - 15:16:21 EDT


I greatly appreciate the insights that are shared on the list. As a
pastor I have little interaction in the original language on the NT
except through this list. The comments on Rom 1:5 have been most helpful.
... IHSOU CRISTOU TOU KURIOUS hHMWN, (5) DI' hOU ELABOMEN CARIN KAI
APOSTOLHN EIS hUPAKOHN PISTEWS EN PASIN TOIS EQNESIN hUPER TOU ONOMATOS
AUTOU, ...

Dr. Conrad, I have two questions:
On Mon, 4 Sep 2000 16:41:47 -0500 "Carl W. Conrad"
wconrad@artsci.wustl.edu> writes:
> At 12:03 PM -0400 9/4/00, Theodore H Mann wrote:
> >I recently read that hUPAKOH PISTEWS, in Romans 1:5, has been
> viewed as
> >(1) an objective genitive, (2) a subjective genitive, (3) an
> attributive
> >genitive, or (4) as a genitive of apposition. Any thoughts as to
> which
> >it might be?
>
> I've said this before, but some don't take it very seriously: these
> distinctions reflect English or other target language usage, not
> categories
> in which Greek speakers/authors understood the relationship of a
> genitive
> with another noun.
snip... First question:
I think I understand your point, but as a pastor I find it helpful to me
to reflect on recognized categories to analyze the text. In fact, I find
that I even do this in English. In light of your answer, am I correct
that you would not object to this or at least see it as a necessary evil?
Perhaps a practice not to be used by linguist, but tolerated in pastors?
Or should I endeavor to take a completely different approach and if so,
what?
> Now consider the alternatives suggested:
>
> (1) objective genitive: "for obedience to faith" -- but is faith a
> person
> to whom one offers obedience? hardly.
> (2) subjective genitive: "faith's obedience" -- but is faith a
> person who
> can obey?
> (3) attributive genitive: "obedience of faith" = "obedience
> associated
> with/dependent upon faith" = "faithful obedience" -- that's what
> strikes me
> as most appropriate in this instance.
> (4) genitive of apposition: "obedience, i.e. faith" -- this doesn't
> make a
> lot of sense to me.
snip...
Ant from a later post :"Yes, I think there is a much tighter link between
the noun and the second noun in the genitive dependent on the first. It
is NOT, in my opinion, a matter of two separate actions--believing and
obeying--but rather of a kind of believing that by nature involves
obeying."
snip...
Second question:
I realize that to the multiplying of categories there may be no end, but
could this not be seen as a genitive of source? The explanation being
similar to yours explained in this and the later post, but not tying
together faith and obedience as you would? Could the tie be that
obedience is dependent upon, but not mandated by, faith; sourced in
faith? Would this violate a grammatical principle? If not, one would have
to validate either interpretation based upon broader issues.

Rob Matlack
620 E. 5th St., Minneapolis, KS 67467
RMatlack@juno.com Hm: 785-392-2865 Church: 785-392-2089
"...that we may present every man mature in Christ Jesus."

 

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