Re: Fwd: Luke 12:10

From: Harry Staiti (a0003192@mail.airmail.net)
Date: Fri Jul 26 1996 - 10:24:55 EDT


Paul Alexander said on Thu, 25 Jul 96 13:34:00 PDT

> ======== Original Message ========
> Date: Thu, 25 Jul 96 11:20:35 PDT
> From: Jeffery W Grams
> To: B-Greek@virginia.edu
> Subject: Luke 12:10
>
>
> Luke 12:10
>
> This passage concerning blasphemy against the Holy Spirit has long
> puzzeled many Christians and Theologians, and there is some unique
> structure to the Greek that should be carefully studied...
>
> I would like to propose the following translation of the passage on the
> basis of the greek text and the context of the passage...
>
> "And anyone who will speak a word to the Son of man, he will be forgiven,
> but he who toward the Holy Spirit blasphemes, he will not be forgiven."
>
> I would like to understand the construction of EREI LOGON EIS TON UION
> TOU ANTHROPOU in the sense of "to speak a word to" = "to confess"...
>
> This exact string does not seem to appear in the LXX or NT in any other
> place... For the moment I would also like to consider this text apart
> from the "parallel" passage in Matthew, since there the context and the
> Greek differ significantly...
>
> The strong advantage of this transation (to my mind) is that it not only
> does not set up an opposition between the Son of Man and the Holy Spirit,
> it also continues the flow of arguement that is seen in verses 8 & 9
> where Jesus says plainly that if we confess him he will confess us, and
> if we deny him he will deny us... Strangely enough, modern translations
> tend to translate the EIS exclusively as "against" which does not fit
> well into the context...
>
> I am uncomfortably aware that my translation seems unique, yet I can not
> see where I have "erred" in my grammar...
>
> Any thoughts on the translation of this text? Where have I gone astray?
>
>
> JGrams@juno.com
> Rev. Jeffery W. Grams - St. Paul's Lutheran Church and School - Fulda,
> Minnesota
> "For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ the Lord, and ourselves
> as your slaves for Jesus' sake." [2 Corinthians 4:5]
>
>
>
> Harry Staiti
> a0003192@mail.airmail.net
> ======== Fwd by: Paul Alexande ========
> Beats me. It's worth noting that the structure of v8-9 is balanced while 10
> is not, either traditionally or with Jeff's trans:
>
> whoever-acknowledges-before men
> son of man-acknowledge-before angels
>
> he-disowns-before men
> he-be disowned-before angels
>
> 10: everyone-speaks a word against(to)-son of man-forgiven
> anyone-blasphemes against-holy spirit-not forgiven
>
> There is divergence in the receiver of man's action either way so this is an
> obvious difference from v8-9. The action in 8,9 is always parallel:
> acknowledge,acknowledge;disown,disown, so it could mean that the action
> would be parallel in 10: against, against. This would favor the traditional
> view.
>
> However, the recipient changes from son of man to holy spirit so it could be
> feasible that the action changes as well. This would be in line with the
> undisputed change in deity terminology.
>
> There is also a change in what happens to the human. In 8,9 the action is
> the same as what is done BY the human. Jeff's translation would allow for
> that rule to hold true (at least in a semantic range) for good words by
> person brings good words/action by God. Bad words/actions(blasphemy) by
> person brings bad from God (not forgiven). Even though this would hold
> true, it would still allow for the differences in structure that exist in
> 10.
>
> That's just structure. What's going on with the deity change. v11,12 are
> futuristic for in Lucan theo the disciples haven't got the HS yet. Luke is
> telling his audience that they better not ignore what he's saying or there
> are dire consequences. Forgiveness comes from Jesus, good. Power to defend
> the faith comes from the HS.
>
> This is just off the top of my head, what do you think?
>

Harry Staiti
a0003192@mail.airmail.net



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