Rev 6.6 & edicty of Domitian

From: Juan Stam B (
Date: Tue Oct 01 1996 - 18:56:53 EDT

Subject: Rev 6.6 & edict of Domitian
Date: 1 October 1996

Our University's Internet has been down for over 12 hours, and apparently
I was automatically unsubscribed as well, so I will now hastily try to
pick up the threads. On Rev 6.6 I have one fairly short message from Carey
(30 Sept), a longer one from Otto Nordgreen (30 Sept) and then a much
longer one also from Otto (01 Oct). If anyone has sent me other messages
on this, please remail them to me (if possible). I apparently missed at
least one posting from Otto to Greg..

To Greg Carey: Many thanks! I'm not sold yet on the Domitian connection
but am trying to balance the pros & cons. I see the 7 seals (epecially the
four horsemen) as very dramatic symbolic equivalents, basically, to the
"beginnings of birth pangs" in Mat 24 & Mk 13, "but the end is not yet".
Though the account gives few details, I capture the basic vision as that
of history as a furious horse race (the same factors competing as in the
synoptic discourse: war, hunger, plague, persecution and perhaps the
spread of the Gospel). So I do not see them as future or even imminent
future, but as on-going historical conflict, with increasing intensity. I
wouldn't read too much into the "universal" aspect; it isn't even clear to
me what "universal war" or "universal hunger" would mean or would have
meant to the author. It seems to me that for different details, but most
probably the wine and oil here, the imagination of the Seer could have
been fed by some current events. It's very clear that John of Patmos was
very interested in economics and was pretty savvy about it.

(Somewhere I read, I think in an earlier posting of yours, a reference to
Hamer. I should point out, though, that quite a few very respected
scholars have accepted the Domitian reference: Reinach, Bousset, Harnack,
Moffatt, Swete, Rist, Reicke etc)

To Otto: how exciting to get a response from Norway, and obviously from a
kindred spirit! Thanks very much for the bibliographical references; is
their any way you could mail me a copy of your paper (I'll be happy to
pay expenses. My Internet set-up is not good for downloading longer
documents). I agree that the issue of the date is decisive here, but I so
far favor the 95 date and would see this possible historical allusion as
one more evidence, if it can be shown to be probable.
   Right now I'm working on an over-all commentary on REV (2 vols, in
Spanish) but I have recently published articles on "The mission of the
Church according to Revelation" and "The Economic Sanctions of the Great
Beast" (both in Spanish). The latter, rather long, is one half an
historical-exegetical of Rev 13.17s, and one-half a parallel to the U.S.
boycott of Cuba (and earlier of Nicaragua; now also Iran etc though I
didn't mention that). In the late 70s I published a long article, "El
Apocalipsis y el imperialismo" which analyzed what Rev says about the
political, economic, social and ideological-religious structures of the
Roman imperial system.
Also, thank you for sending in the Latin!

I'll close for now, and perhaps post again after studying your long memo
of today (Oct 1). If I've missed any postings, I hope I can recuperate
them. Cordially, Juan

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