Re: [Intro Greek]: Independent Subjunctives

From: Dexter Garnier (
Date: Sun Oct 20 1996 - 07:34:43 EDT

Dear Timothy,

Genuine thanks for your response to my appeal for help:

>Subject: Re: [Intro Greek]: Independent Subjunctives

Since this apparently got onto the B-Greek List somehow (I though I sent
it only to Intro Greek -- being completely intimidated by the erudition
of the good folks at B-Greek), I will also post to B-Greek so they know
where it started.

I should have stated in my original message that the text I am using is
_Greek, An Intensive Course_ by Hansen and Quinn, 1983 edition. Though I
am doing the best I can, I would have to say that my approach has been
rather less than intensive, more like plodding along. In other words it's
been a real struggle. But I intend to see it through because my real goal
is to read the GNT. One of the difficulties is that while I find the
approach to the material that Hansen and Quinn take very suited to my way
of understanding things, because there is no key to the Drills and
Exercises I am never quite sure whether my work is correct. Therefore I
appreciate the assistance and patience of all, being very grateful to
have a place where I can get help while learning at home and not even
KNOWING anyone else experienced in these matters. Thanks to ALL.

>At 08:42 PM 10/19/96 -0700, Dexter Garnier wrote:
>>Dear Intro_Greek Listers,
>>I am trying to teach myself Greek and am hoping I can find help here. My
>>question is about Independent Subjunctives and whether or not voice
>>affects translation. For instance in the following Prohibitive
>>Subjunctive examples:
>>MH PAUSHTE -- Aorist Subjunctive Active 2 person plural
>This means "Don't Stop!"

That part I got.

>>MH PAUSHSQE (Q=THETA) -- Aorist Subjunctive Middle 2 person plural
>This means "Don't be stoped!" e.g. "Don't be stoped by the Athenians!"

Thanks for that! I wasn't quite sure about how to phrase the Middle (I
get brainlock more often than I'd like to). However,

>(The ending is passive and not middle!

Hmmm....Here I am using the verb PAUW in these examples. My being such a
novice I should have used the paradigm verb in the text to be on more
sure ground but got adventurous. Anyway, the paradigm verb Hansen and
Quinn use in the examples is PAIDEUW. At Unit 7.4 (3.) the form for
Aorist Subjunctive Middle, 2 person plural for the verb PAIDEUW is:

PAIDEUSHSQE = Aorist Subjunctive Middle; 2 person plural.

If that is correct then wouldn't

PAUSHSQE = Aorist Subjunctive Middle; 2 person plural

be correct?

>>MH PAUQHTE (Q=THETA) -- Aorist Subjunctive Passive, 2 person plural
>This is not Aorist.

As before, Hansen and Quinn have at Unit 5.7 (7.)

PAIDEUQHTE = Aorist Subjunctive Passive; 2 person plural

Then wouldn't that make

PAUQHTE = Aorist Subjunctive Passive, 2 person plural

>You would need a sigma (s) as in your example above. My
>friend, this example is confusing!

It certainly is!! Either I am completely discombobulated or my
transliteration is totally wrong or something else is amiss.

>Where did you get it? Is it correctly
>copied from your book?

See above explanation(s) how the text uses PAIDEUW and I used PAUW.

>Please let me know. What's confusing about it is
>the 'QH' indicator. This is an indicator of the passive voice.

That much I think I actually almost understand.

>The 'TE' ending is an active ending.

Yes. The text says (Unit 5.7 Obversation):
"The aorist passive endings use the person markers; -N, -S, --, -MEN,
-TE, -SAN, of the active voice..."

>Thus, you have both active and passive voice in
>one verb. I have never seen this ever. An ending can be both
>middle/passive, but not passive and active.

I really don't know what to say. I must be erring somewhere.

>>Any assistance will be much appreciated!

That much still definitely applies.


And that too still applies. Sorry for such a long message (Oh the
bandwidth!) for what surely is a very small matter from one who, if
Jonathan Robie is a "Little Greek," than surely I am a "micro Greek" or
some such.

Best Regards to All,

Dexter Garnier
San Francisco, CA

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