From: James H. Vellenga (
Date: Tue Feb 04 1997 - 08:48:37 EST

From: "Carl W. Conrad" <>
> At 2:56 PM -0600 2/3/97, James H. Vellenga wrote:
> >> From: "Carl W. Conrad" <>
> >>
> >> At 10:17 AM -0600 2/3/97, Eric Vaughan wrote:
> >> >Hello,
> >> >[original query omitted for brevity]
> >>
> >> I don't think that there is an iota of difference between the meaning and
> >> usage of ALLHLOU (a compounded form of ALLOS ALLOU,KTL.--the distributive
> >> of "one vis-=3DE0-vis another") in all its forms and the plural of=
> hEAUTOU in
> >> all its forms; they are variant ways of expressing reciprocity. I was goi=
> ng
> >> to suggest that the forms of hEAUTOU are later--Hellenistic--equivalents
> >> for ALLHLOU to express reciprocity of agents to each other, but I find th=
> at
> >> Sophocles already in the 5th and Plato in the 4th are using forms of
> >> hEAUTOU as equivalent to forms of ALLHLOU.
> >>
> >Carl, let me make sure I understand this by turning the question
> >around. Suppose Paul (or whoever) wanted to tell his users to
> >"speak to yourselves in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs" --
> >meaning to use these songs as a form of self encouragement. Would
> >he have used hEAUTOU or would he have used some other form? (I
> >am assuming here that the Greek is used in the plural when giving
> >a command to multiple people whether you are prescribing individual
> >actions or group actions.)
> (1) Since it is a distributive form, the command would be plural but
> understood as put to each to act thus towards another or others.
> (2) (a) I think that the cleanest and classical way would be: LEGETE PROS
> ALLHLOUS (or ALLHLOIS--or use LALEITE, the NT Koine verb, with no
> difference in sense);(b) I think next best would be: LEGETE PROS hUMAS
> AUTOUS (or hUMIN AUTOIS), but I'm doubtful this would have been used in the
> Hellenistic era; (c) the third alternative would be: LEGETE hEAUTOIS. While
> I'm inclined to find this third alternative sort of abhorrent because it
> uses what was originally a third-person reflexive pronoun in the second
> person (the Delphic Apollo says GNWQI SEAUTON; it's hard to imagine him
> saying GNWQI hEAUTON!), it appears that the 3rd person reflexive pronoun
> had already come into use as early as the 5th century B.C. as an
> all-purpose reflexive pronoun for any number or person. Somewhat similar is
> the extension of the use of what was originally a 3rd person accusative
> dual pronoun, SFE, as an all-purpose accusative pronoun in poetry employed
> for any number or person. The developmental history of Greek pronouns,
> personal and otherwise, is a fascinating chapter in its own right.

Carl, thanks for your response. But I think I didn't make my
question clear. I'm wanting to know, if Paul wanted to tell
Tommy to speak to himself, and Jane to speak to herself, and
Gerry to speak to him or herself, how would he have done it?
The idea here is one in which, when my wife is working alone around the
house or I'm driving alone in the car, we use hymns individually as
a form of self-encouragement. Would hEAUTOIS be the preferred
form in that case? Or would he have added a form of PAS, perhaps?

Thanks, by the way, for all the effort you put into this list.


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