From: Carl W. Conrad (email@example.com)
Date: Sat Jul 05 1997 - 12:27:10 EDT
I see that Eric's interesting question has still had no answer from anyone
after about a week. I THINK that the answer IS that TIS,TI in this instance
DOES carry the senses of "the nature of," and "how great is ..."
The old Victorian L&S that I have on hand here gives (under TI/S, TI/):
III. TI'S = POI=OS; Soph. Tr. 311, OT 489. I'd be curious to see
what the new LSJ/Glare says about it. It'd be worth checking the Perseus
The curious thing about this (to me, at least) is that the general tendency
in Greek seems to be for POIOS to assume the function of the interrogative
to supplant TIS, and indeed POIOS is the interrogative in modern Greek.
What we have in this particular instance is the reverse, where TI/S seems
to have assumed the function of POI=OS OR PO/SOS.
At 11:11 PM -0400 6/28/97, Eric Weiss wrote:
>TIS/TI in Ephesians 1:18-19
>In Ephesians 1:18-19, Paul says that he prays that they might know:
>1:18 - TIS ESTIN hH ELPIS THS KLHSEWS AUTOU
>TIS hO PLOUTOS THS DOXHS THS KLHRONOMIAS AUTOU EN TOIS hAGIOIS
>1:19 - KAI TI TO hUPERBALLON MEGEQOS THS DUNAMEWS AUTOU EIS
>hHMAS TOUS PISTEUONTAS
>Examining these phrases, a basically literal translation would be: "what
>is the hope of his calling, what [is] the wealth of the glory of his
>inheritance in the saints, and what [is] the surpassing greatness of his
>power to us who believe." I.e. that basically Paul is praying that they
>would know what these things are.
>1) Though the 2nd and 3rd TIS/TI lack ESTIN, is it logical to consider
>all three consecutive TIS/TI clauses as similar constructions, and hence
>the interpretation/translation of TIS/TI should be similar in all three
>BAGD gives the definition of "what sort of a thing" to TIS/TI in
>Ephesians 1:19 (no mention is made of 1:18), so that a translation might
>be (if the same definition is used in 1:18 as well): "what sort of hope
>he calls you to, what kind of riches is the glory of his inheritance in
>the saints, and what sort of great power he has toward us who believe."
>Looking first at the 2nd and 3rd TIS/TI, I wonder if Paul is not just
>interested that they know WHAT these things are (i.e., the traditional
>interpretation of TIS/TI as "what or who") or WHAT SORT of things these
>things are (i.e., what sort of wealth God has for them, and what kind of
>great power God has toward the believer - the BAGD definition). Perhaps
>Paul wants them to know HOW truly RICH is the glory of God's inheritance
>in the saints, and HOW truly GREAT is God's power to the believer. In
>other words, a translation along the lines of: "how gloriously rich is
>his inheritance in the saints, and how great is his power to us who
>2) So my next question is: Does TIS ESTIN hO (in its masc., fem. and
>neut. forms - since we have all three in the clauses under
>consideration) permit such a definition (i.e., idiomatically meaning
>If 1) and 2) are affirmative, then my inference would be that 1:18a
>could be translated along the lines of: "how hopeful/assured they can be
>regarding his calling" - i.e., he prays that they might know that they
>can really put their hope in God's calling of them or what God calls
>them to. Not, as usually translated, that they would know "what" that
>hope is, nor (per BAGD) "what sort" of hope they've been called to, but
>rather that they might know how good that hope is - that it's a sure
>hope, something they can fully trust in, just like his inheritance is a
>really RICH one, and his power toward them is truly GREAT.
>So, can TIS/TI function lexically or semantically as I've posited? Eph.
>4:4 (KAQWS KAI EKLHQHTE EN MIA ELPIDI THS KLHSEWS UMWN) might
>argue against what I propose by possibly implying that all Paul wants
>them to know in 1:18 is what that hope is. But it's not quite the same
>phrase, and the context is different, too.
>"Eric S. (and Karol-Ann) Weiss"
>part-time grad student at The Criswell College
>"Send those testimonies!"
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics/Washington University
One Brookings Drive/St. Louis, MO, USA 63130/(314) 935-4018
Summer: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(704) 675-4243
firstname.lastname@example.org OR email@example.com
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