Re: hINA, this time in 1 John 1:9

From: James H. Vellenga (
Date: Thu Sep 11 1997 - 09:22:27 EDT

> From: "Paul S. Dixon" <>
> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:56:28 EDT
> <snip>
> John, I don't see how we can take the EANs in chapter 1 as "whenever."
> Certainly we must take the EAN in 1:9 the same way as in 1:6,7,8, and 10.
> Such a rendering suggests that the same "we" is the subject in all the
> verses, i.e., in 1:6,7,8,9, and 10, as though it is possible for all of
> these verses to be describing the Children of God. It seems much for
> likely that he is contrasting the children of light and the children of
> darkness, thus two separate groups. If so, then "if"
> Paul Dixon
This is really interesting.

First off, I agree with Carl's response, based on my own experience
-- no Christian, claimed or otherwise, that I know is entirely
always in one situation or the other.

But there is a further observation: throughout vv. 6-10, whenever
the EAN is associated with deprecated behavior (vv. 6, 8, 10), it is
also accompanied by EIPWMEN -- "we say". I also went through and
retranslated using "whenever" rather than "if", and it "worked"
very nicely --

  "Whenever we say ..., then negative consequence."
  "Whenever we keep doing the positive ... then positive consequence."

So it looks to me like "John" is describing the cycle between
satisfactory and unsatisfactory behavior that many Christians
in fact experience.

Logically, what Paul says could still work -- the "if's" could
be dividing the "us" who claim to be in the group into two
categories. But that seems less likely to me.

Jim Vellenga

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