Re: 1Thess. 4:14, what about dia?

From: Jonathan Robie (
Date: Tue Oct 07 1997 - 18:26:07 EDT

At 01:56 PM 10/7/97 -0500, Michael Holmes wrote:
>Possibilities--some of which have
>already been noted in this thread--include:

My head is already spinning! I really think that DIA has too many possible
meanings, and it is time to create a few new prepositions that could carry
the load more equitably, but it could take years to rewrite the original
manuscripts, so in the meantime...

>a) DIA as indicating attendent circumstances: "those who have died as
>Christians" (cf. the NEB)or perhaps "in contact with Jesus" (Moule,
>Idiom-Book, 57); in this case the TOUS KOIMHQENTAS DIA TOU IHSOU phrase
>would be essentially parallel to hOI NEKROI EN XRISTW in 4:16;

I don't have Moule. How is DIA to be understood in this interpretation? Can
you give some other examples where DIA is understood this way?

>b) DIA as an indication of martyrdom, a view that goes back at least to
>Kirsopp Lake (and which Carl sensed but rejects);

Wouldn't this require an accusative, as in TOUS KOIMHQENTAS DIA TON IHSOUN?
What sense of DIA that takes a genitive would produce this reading?

>c) "with Christ" (Turner, in Grammar of NT Greek, 3:267), i.e., the dead are
>with Jesus so that they can appear with him

And neither do I have Turner...when does DIA mean "with"? Can you give me
some examples of this?

>d) Rigaux (in his comm. on Thess. letters) gives DIA a causal sense: because
>of Jesus their death is characterized by hope and is not just mere death.

Again, wouldn't this require an accusative? What sense of DIA that takes a
genitive would produce this reading?

I need more detail to understand how these are possible! Thanks!


Jonathan Robie
POET Software, 3207 Gibson Road, Durham, N.C., 27703

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Sat Apr 20 2002 - 15:38:32 EDT