From: Martin Arhelger (martin.arhelger@metronet.de)
Date: Mon Dec 01 1997 - 13:31:38 EST
Dear Rolf and others!
Im afraid that our discussion on the H(h?)oly S(s?)pirit is out of place in
B-GREEK and is no help to the original inquire with regard to Luk 2:25.
Nevertheless let me say this: A very clear intimation of the personality of
the Holy Spirit is in 1 Cor 12:11: "all these works the one and the same
Spirit, dividing to each one severally even as he will." You cannot say this
of an influence, because it is said he works and he is willing. This are the
most distinct expressions of the action of a person.
Look also at:
Acts 8:29 And the Spirit said to Philip, "Go up and join this chariot."
Acts 13:2 While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit
said, "Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have
called them." ... 4 So, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, they went down to
Seleucia...
Acts 16:6 And they went through the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having
been forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in Asia. 7 And when they
had come opposite Mysia, they attempted to go into Bithynia, but the Spirit
of Jesus did not allow them;
Acts 20:23 except that the Holy Spirit testifies to me in every city that
imprisonment and afflictions await me.
Acts 20:28 Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy
Spirit has made you overseers ...
IMHO its a very poor thought to deny that the Holy Spirit is seen as a
person (that is: something acting with own will and energy) in this
scripture references. I dont deny that it MIGHT be possible to interpret
this scriptures in another way. But in Germany we call such an exegesis
"gezwungen" (forced). Its not probable.
Rolf Furuli wrote:
(...)
> What needs to be
> taken into account is the Semitic idiom of "representation" which
literally
> is used hundreds of times throughout the Bible. To illustrate: Who gave
the
> law and spoke to the people at Sinai? YHWH (Ex 20:1)? No, angels (Gal
3:19,
> Acts 7:53).
What do you deduce from it? That an angel has no distinct personality ?!
> Who hardened the heart of Pharao? YHWH (Ex 7:3)? No, Pharao
> himself (Ex 8:15).
So Pharao was no person?
> Who wisited Abraham and spoke in the 1st person? YHWH
> (Gen 18:17)? No, evidently angels (Ex 33:20).
Those angels were no persons?
> Who did Paul persecute? Jesus
> (Acts 9:5)? No, the disciples of the Lord (Acts 9:1).
And the disciples were no persons ?
> Even when P h. is
> mentioned in one line and God is mentioned in a parallel line, this does
> not prove that P h. IS God.
Yes, but its the most natural way to interpret it. You cannot speak of
proofs, here. Acts is no textbook of dogmatics.
Die Wissenschaftlichkeit einer Hypothese ist umgekehrt proportional zur
Anzahl der unbewiesenen Postulate, auf die sie sich stuetzt! (Sorry, not
able to give this in English!). Your hypothesis needs a lot of unproven (and
unnatural) postulates!
> It need not show anything more than that P.h.
> REPRESENTS God (remember "the problem of induction"!).
Sorry, I dont see this. Perhaps thats due to my past; I studied
mathematics for seven years and so I have a quite different view of a proof
and of induction. ;-)
> But how can something not being a person represent God? As already
> argued,while the word "force" may be our best choice, applied to P h., it
> gives unfortunate connotations. We should, however realize, that even if
it
> is impersonal, this does not mean that it is "nothing". Einstein`s
> equation E=mc2 shows that power is matter and matter is power, so
> "power/force" can have visible manifestations. P h. was active in
creation,
> and P h.`s function as PARAKLHTOS was, according to 1 Cor 12-14 manifested
> in many powerful gifts and according to 2 Tim 3:16 in the writing of
> texts. All these things and many others represented God.
Of course there are a lot of references, where the Spirit is seen as a
representative of God. But that does not do away with the other references.
Compare this with God the son. He is seen as a representative of the Father
in many scriptures. But that does not proof that he has no personality nor
that he has no divinity.
Regards
_____________________________
Martin Arhelger
D-53121 Bonn
Germany
martin.arhelger@metronet.de
_____________________________
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