Re: Jn.1:1b word order

From: lakr (
Date: Tue Feb 10 1998 - 12:18:04 EST

> The point remains, that when time began (EN ARCHi) the LOGOS, who was
> QEOS, was already existing (HN) with TON QEON. So, we have two persons
> face to face when time began, the LOGOS who was QEOS and One who is
> identified anaphorically as the well-known God of the Old Testament (TON
> QEON).

Greetings B-Greeker's,

Over the last few weeks I have read what apparently appears to
be a widely held opionion that "time" began with the ARXH which
is described both in the LXX of Ge 1:1 and John 1:1.

The conclusion appears to be is that anyone who existed prior to this
point is 'eternal' (as in having no beginning).

I have not seen any Greek texts discussed to posit this viewpoint,
and would be very interested in seeing some, even it it is in
non biblical Greek philosophy, such as Timaeus, or such.

The following come to mind, which I believe bear on the question
as to whether the Hebrews and first century Christians would have
understood the text in this way.

Ps 89:2 LXX states that QEOS existed 'PRO TOU ORH GENHQHNAI' or
before the mountains were born. God's "time" is further described
with respect to man's "time" in verse 4 where 'XILIA ETH EN
OFQALMOIS SOU WS' (a thousand years in God's eyes) are as a single
night watch (FULAKH EN NUKTI).

In the NT, 2Pe 3:8 states that one day for humankind is as
1000 years to God. (XILAI ETH WS HMERA MIA).

With this being the mindset of pre Christian Jews and first
century Christians, why is it apparently a widely held belief
that God has no "time" ?

Would there not be a way in Greek to express the thought that
a being is "timeless" or outside of time which would have been
understood by Koine readers of the first century ?

I apologize if this has wandered off the charter of B-GREEK,
and if anyone would like to respond privately I would very much
like additional information on this subject.

Larry Kruper

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Sat Apr 20 2002 - 15:39:02 EDT