Re: John 1:1

Date: Wed Feb 11 1998 - 16:31:41 EST

Mark Joseph wrote:

<< Members of the John 1:1 (was "b-Greek") discussion group--
 Greg Stafford wrote:
>Two things can be stated with some degree of certainty: 1) John does not say
>the LOGOS is eternal, and 2) he does not say the LOGOS is a created being.
 I trust that the contradiction here is evident. Beings are either
 eternal (God) or created (the rest of us). To say that the LOGOS is
 neither is to say he doesn't exist.>>

Mark, does John have to say the LOGOS is either eternal or created? No, he
can, just like you and I, say simply, the LOGOS existed, without getting
involved with any details about that existence. Of course, in my opinion, it
doesn't take him long to comment on the temporal nature of the LOGOS'
existence (John 1:14, 18), but he does not do so in John 1:1. I understand
that others differ in their view of these two verses, and I respect their
opinions. But we are commenting on John 1:1 right now.

I said:
>He simply says that the LOGOS existed during the time referred to in Genesis
Mark replied:
 Which means, to a 1st-century Jew(ish Christian) that the LOGOS is
 eternal, as the *Hebrew* of Gen. 1:1 (regardless of the possible meanings
 of the Greek phrase EN ARCHi, which is best seen as a literalistic
 translation of the Hebrew B:Re'SHiYT) refers to an absolute beginning,
 the possible translations "In the beginning of God's creating" and "At
 the beginning, when God began to create" having been convincingly refuted.
 Mark Joseph >>

Well, I guess you have not been following this thread very carefully. No
offense, but I believe you are begging the question. You here assume that
which you have yet to prove. You also ignore the evidence previously presented
which argues against a reference to some "absolute beginning." You also make
an assertion about how a first-century Jewish Christian would understand
John's use of EN ARKHi. Any chance you could provide some evidence supporting
that assertion? Thanks.

Greg Stafford
University of Wisconsin

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