From: Edgar Foster (email@example.com)
Date: Wed Apr 22 1998 - 21:33:12 EDT
My apologies. In a rush, I accidentially sent a letter I was composing
on Rom. 8:30. I want to clarify this message tomorrow.
---Edgar Foster wrote:
> ---firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
> > Edgar Foster wrote:
> > > Dear Carl,
> > > I would translate Rom. 8:30 offhand: "those he also glorified."
> > >
> > > The event happened in the past, is happening in the present (first
> > > century) and will happen in the future. Therefore, it is a
> > > transcendent "event," not per se "futuristic."
> > Dear Ed ~
> > I know this is an old saw, but this translates so easily in the
> > idiomatic English [timeless] present...
> > "...these He also glorifies." ... As do all the 'gnomic' aorists in
> > this passage.
> > To put it in the English past tense quite simply does not translate
> > the Greek. This passage does not select an event, but describes the
> > process of ANY occurrence of that kind of event... Even
> > 'predestinates' ~ For can one say that God does not predestinate now
> > and in the future, as well as in the past?
> Dear George,
> I know you have strong feelings about the treatment of the aorist and
> I respect your views. But I cannot second these viewpoints in toto. I
> see no reason why Paul's words should be viewed as a process, instead
> of a past occurrence with universally applicable ramfications. If we
> bring up the issue of God's prognosticative abilities, this is an
> example of interpreting the passage theologically.
> > If we translate it as a past tense, there is no hope for the present
> > and future of this process of predestination, calling and
> I don't agree. If we view TOUTOUS KAI EDOXASEN as a gnomic aorist,
> then it is universally applicable. It continues to take place into
> futurity since it transcends time. Another example of this usage is 1
> Pet. 1:24: "EXHRANQH hO CORTOS KAI TO ANQOS EXEPESEN. These words
> could be paraphrased: "grass has shriveled and flowers have fallen."
> Does this mean that the process is still not taking place today? No,
> but this rendering does justice to the aorist tense while still
> allowing room FOR the literary aorist. Even if we say: "grass withers
> and flowers fall," this could still be construed as a universal
> principle. We could also say, "men live and men die." This has
> happened in the past, it happens in the present, and it will happen in
> the future.
> > Inventing a bunch of names for the various occurrences of the aorist
> > [where it is a preconceived 'past' tense designation (via its
> > augment)] chops off the wings of this magnificent verb form, and has
> > it flopping around on the ground in the past, in the present, in the
> > future... alternately... and only contextual wizardry can sort it
> > out. In the timeless idiomatic English present, it can be
> > effortlessly, simply, consistently and clearly, with vision, every
> > time it is seen in use.
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