Re: From whence it IS?

From: Jim West (
Date: Wed Jun 03 1998 - 13:15:59 EDT

At 09:55 AM 6/3/98 -0700, you wrote:
>You may be under the *impression* that your posts are non-offensive,
>however one would think that after numerous people have told
>you that your manner of reply IS offensive, you'd think that
>you would change the way you reply, so as to foster a more
>amicable scholarly exchange !?!

well, I am honestly baffled as to how my statement [snipped for the sake of
brevity] was in any way offensive. Purely baffled.

> I have studiously avoided
>getting involved in ANY threads that you are involved in for
>this very reason...the pontifical nature of your posts are

Honest to God, I have never viewed my posts as pontifical or ex cathedra. I
simply state my views briefly without killing them with a 1000 qualifications.

> Frequently you have good things to say, sometimes
>you offer unsupported opinions--and that's exactly what they
>are, opinions; and its just fine to offer one's opinions on
>bgreek as far as I'm concerned, but you present BOTH as if
>they are ex cathedra, and they are NOT ! So I thought in
>this case, I'd respond in tenor and tone, and see if its sits
>well with you.

Well, I can assure you, I am not offended; just surprised that you have
mistaken my straightforward tone as pontification.

> I personally value some of the contributions
>you make to bgreek, so don't take this as a personal attack
>or affront...its not. But if it makes you uncomfortable, then
>its achieved its goal...because that's is exactly how you
>make many, many other folks on bgreek feel all too often.

Well gee, never intentionally!

>Now to the reply...
[snipped- unproven assertions]

>As to the use of ESTIN as an historical present; I personally
>(as well as Dan Wallace [who's not at Trinity, but Dallas, and

he weren't the one I wuz talkin' about.

>the author of the new Zondervan Syntax], and several others
>the NT and in the LXX (some of us chased it through the
>various NT era papyrii, etc., as well), and there is NO
>EXAMPLE of it used as an historical present. When Jim has
>done the same, and can cite specific examples (make sure
>they are not Indirect Discourse !!!) to the contrary, then
>he will be in a position to comment on whether my assertion
>is correct or not...and NOT UNTIL THEN!

Pardon, but your point was that it NEVER is used in x way. A post already
sent offers 3 examples of its use which disprove your thesis.

>Until then all

it looks like then is now.

>he has to offer is his knee-jerk reaction (no doubt as a
>result of the fact that this grammatical situation would
>clearly demonstrate a first century date for the Gospel,
>a conclusion his posts have clearly demonstrated that he
>dislikes in the extreme).

What? What does this have to do with the issue at hand?

>In conclusion, I'd say that I prefer to "play nice with the
>other kids" and respect the positions, beliefs, opinions, etc.,
>of everyone on bgreek, and as long as we ALL behave as adults
>and respect each other as we engage in CIVIL scholarly
>debate then we can have fun on bgreek...that's what I'd
>personally like to see !! Jim, please keep contributing to

nope. I'll listen but I'm not gonna talk no more. If someone asks I may
answer privately. Period. No sense in constantly being barraged by
misunderstanding and misreading.

> but PLEASE, take some time to make sure that what
>you are saying is said in a manner that fosters our mutual
>edification, rather than just inflames the other members of
>our bgreek community.


>Finally, my apologies to Edward and Carl--two men whom I
>personally hold in the highest of esteem--for making waves.
>In the past I have normally allowed them to handle these
>kinds of things offlist, but it is my impression that such
>comments from them have fell on deaf ears in this case.


>Now back to the MorphBHS (or was it the MorphLXX ?!)...

Best to all,


>Dale M. Wheeler, Ph.D.
>Research Professor in Biblical Languages Multnomah Bible College
>8435 NE Glisan Street Portland, OR 97220
>Voice: 503-251-6416 FAX:503-254-1268 E-Mail:
Jim West, ThD
Quartz Hill School of Theology

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