From: Ben Crick (ben.crick@argonet.co.uk)
Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 - 17:51:06 EDT
On Wed 8 Jul 98 (17:58:34), eweiss@gte.net wrote:
> A certain author claims that the "great cloud of witnesses" in Hebrews
> 12:1 are in a sense "spectators" of what the present-day church is
> doing, as though they are in a stadium, watching us run the race and
> cheering us on, since apart from us they can't be made perfect (11:40).
> My two commentaries on Hebrews suggest the same, so it's not an
> uncommon idea.
IMHO the idea of NEFOS MARTURWN as a "cloud" of witnesses, and the names
of those "witnesses" being those of saints long dead, combine to give the
*impression* of the souls of the departed saints observing from some
observation platform (RaQia` ?) in the sky. However, most people's doctrine
of the Hereafter does not include an article on the Departed being able
to look down and observe events as they develop on earth. Neither hAiDHS
not PARADEISOS seem to include a viewing gallery or spyhole on Planet Earth.
People in my congregation seem to understand a "crowd" of witnesses rather
than "cloud" of witnesses; rather a "nebulous" concept (pun intended)?
The word "cloud" is a collective noun for cats, "a Cloud of cats"; but
never a "Cloud of Saints"!
That is why I favour the understanding that MARTURES are the heroes of
the faith (PISTIS, in the sense ESTIN DE PISTIS ELPIZOMENWN hUPOSTASIS,
PRAGMATWN ELEGCOS OU BLEPOMENWN, Hebrews 11:1). These "heroes of Faith"
and the ones who being dead yet speak (like Abel in Hebrews 11:4), and whose
testimony *to us* inspires *us* to "press toward the mark for the prize of
the high calling of God..." (Philippians 3:14). Here the Olympic Games
are the metaphor for the Life of Faith: we are "running for Gold", not for
a fading crown, but an imperishable one (1 Corinthians 9:25). The witnesses
who inspire us are those *previous medal-winners* whose names are in the
Hall of Fame. We are not a QEATRON for them; they are an example hUPODEIGMON
for us.
There is one sense in which we are a "spectacle"; but it is not for the
departed saints to watch: hOTI QEATRON EGENHQHMEN TWi KOSMWi KAI AGGELOIS
KAI ANQRWPOIS 1 Corinthians 4:9).
Thanks to those who have contributed.
Ben
-- Revd Ben Crick, BA CF <ben.crick@argonet.co.uk> 232 Canterbury Road, Birchington, Kent, CT7 9TD (UK) http://www.cnetwork.co.uk/crick.htm--- B-Greek home page: http://sunsite.unc.edu/bgreek You are currently subscribed to b-greek as: [cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu] To unsubscribe, forward this message to unsubscribe-b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu To subscribe, send a message to subscribe-b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Thu Feb 21 2002 - 18:24:36 EST