Re: Heraclitus' Fragments and other online goodies (was Re: hOLOGOS)

From: LisaM/GeorgeB (
Date: Fri Oct 30 1998 - 12:55:27 EST

"Carl W. Conrad" wrote:
> At 2:09 PM -0800 10/29/98, LisaM/GeorgeB wrote:
> >"Carl W. Conrad" wrote:
> >
> >> [Heraclitus wrote:]
> >> "You can't step into the same river twice."
> >
> >My memory of this fragment is a little different, although this is the
> >way it is normally transmitted in English. As I am recalling, it is
> >more like: "Through the same river different waters flow."
> >
> >Watching a river is a good thing...
> KAI OUK EIMEN. "In the same rivers we both step and do not step, we are and
> we are not." or, the version offered in DK: "In dieselben Fluesse steigen
> wir und steigen wir nicht, wir sind und wir sind nicht."

Thank-you, Carl. The original, as usual, is still the best ~ My memory
was rather obviously keyed to what I saw as the reason for the original
[of the rivers] when I looked at this so long ago. Parmenides came
along and argued that there is no such thing as change at all, via the
workings of human logic, and Socrates replied that he himself didn't
know anything period. The old conundrum of being and becoming,
constancy and change, is and is not, are nowhere more clear.

I have to think that John had this clearly in mind in his usage of hO
LOGOS, ARCH, and [hO] QEOS in the 4th gospel, mostly because of the
elegance of the resolution to the conundrum that philosophical
consideration engenders. I sometimes wonder if these conundrums are
designed so as to engender a sacred focus through despair of knowing
anything via one's own intellect. [A MUsterious consideration indeed!!

EIMEN TE KAI OUK EIMEN ~ What is comes from what is not, and returns to
it... Where/when? ~ EN ARCH How? DIA TON LOGON-QEON The resolution
has elegance, you see...

George [Who lives along a salmon river ~ The Yakima]

Lisa Messmer George Blaisdell

Dulcie~~~My Stolen Dalmatian
Last Chance for Animals--Fight Pet Theft!

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