Re: PRWTOTOKOS (was col 1:15 greek help)

From: Edgar Krentz (
Date: Mon Nov 09 1998 - 04:56:40 EST

We are now quite far from grammatical and lexical analysis. that is why I
have avoided saying anything in this long thread.

>Forgive this simple, short question from a poor subscriber who doesn't
>have nearly the education that y'all seem to have.
>Why do y'all seem to be assuming that Paul says that Christ is part of
>creation by calling Him "first-born"; to be begotten and to be created
>are not the same thing. Arius sparked a very major debate over this
>in the 4th century, and the resolution of the First Council of Nicea
>states very clearly, "begotten, not made". I do not say this in any
>way to try to plug my particular dogmas but only to point out that
>there seems to be an assumption going on in our discussions that has
>not always been held.
>From the earliest days of the Church, verbs not involving "creation"
>were used to discribe the relationship the Father has with the Son and
>the Holy Spirit. From the earliest days, it has been said of the Son
>that He was "begotten," and of the Holy Spirit that He "proceeds."
>Once again, I only mention these dogmatical points to demonstrate
>that, from the beginning (33 AD), this assumption that beggetting/born
>and creation have not been considered equivalent.
>For what its worth, I offer this point for readers of this passage.
>Yours in Christ,
>Christian Moulton
>"It was in Antioch that they were first called Christians"
>Through the prayers of the holy Nektarios Kephalas of Aegina, Metropolitan
>of Pentapolis the great wonderworkder, O Lord Jesus Christ our God, have
>mercy on us and save us!
>Get your free address at
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Edgar Krentz
Acting Dean, Fall Quarter 1998
Professor of New Testament Emeritus
Lutheran School of Theology at Chicago
1100 E. 55th Street
Chicago, IL 60615 USA
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