From: Jonathan Robie (
Date: Mon Nov 09 1998 - 16:56:14 EST

At 04:08 PM 11/9/98 EST, wrote:
>In a message dated 11/9/98 8:34:20 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> writes:
><< And here at last we get to a central but often unspoken element in this
> entire matter; IF Christ in Col 1:15 is FIGURATIVE, then why must he
> supplant someone else as firstborn? >>
>Well, if he is not really the firstborn, then, since God has other sons (Job
>1:6; 2:1; 38:7) one of them would have to have been the firstborn, unless we
>are going to posit that God simply created these sons as a group. Then we
>to account for the fact that Jesus is indeed one of these sons, the MONOGENHS


Are you saying that PRWTOTOKOS in Colossians 1:15 means PRWTOTOKOS with
respect to the "sons of God" found in the Job passages you cite? If so,
what is the evidence for your view? The phrase PRWTOTOKOS PASHS KTISEWS
makes it quite clear that Jesus is the firstborn with respect to PASHS
KTISEWS (all of creation). Certainly, these "sons of God" in Job are not
"all of creation".

You suggest that the "sons of God" in Job are the angels. I do not know one
way or another, but if Colossians wanted to say that Jesus was the
PRWTOTOKOS of the angels, it could have said so, instead of saying

Texcel Research

B-Greek home page:
You are currently subscribed to b-greek as: []
To unsubscribe, forward this message to
To subscribe, send a message to

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Sat Apr 20 2002 - 15:40:07 EDT