Re: Pluperfect in John 7:30

From: George Blaisdell (
Date: Tue Feb 09 1999 - 11:03:16 EST

>From: "Carl W. Conrad" writes:

>At 7:16 PM +0400 2/8/99, Carlton Winbery wrote:
>>Carl Conrad wrote;
>>>hHKW is termed a "perfective present" because it is conjugated as a
>>>tense but is translated with the sense of a perfect: "I have come";
it has
>>>an imperfect, and I have seen a future hHXW, but there are no forms
in any
>>>other tense system, to my knowledge.
>>Carl, This word occurs in the NT in the present, future and once as an
>>aorist. In Mark 6:3 we have the word, hHKASIN, which could be the
>>act 3rd pl with the two K coalesced or, as I prefer, the pres. act
ind. 3rd
>>pl that "borrowed," at the writers hand, the perfect ending from the
>>The aorist form can be found with a search. But I have one aor. form
>>listed in my morphology.
>You're quite right, Carlton; the aorist IS found in Hellenistic Greek,
>although it isn't in Classical Greek which is what I was remembering.
>guess is that the form in Mark 6:3 is using the stem with a perfect
>that seems appropriate precisely because of the kappa in the stem and
>perfective meaning.

Thank-you Carl and Carlton ~

The thing about this 'present' [hHKW] that gets my attention, aside from
the obvious anomaly in Greek of a 'perfective present', is the simple
fact that it FEELS like an aorist! If there were such a thing as a
past, present and future aorist, this might qualify as the present
aorist. But it turns out that not only is there no such aorist past,
present and future in Greek, [we ALL know that!!] but as Carlton points
out, this verb indeed has its own aorist [hHXA], whereas the aorist for
ERCOMAI is HLQON. Is the kappa in hHKW morphologically perfective and
not aorist related? I show the perfect of ERCOMAI as ELHLUQA. Are
there two stem systems involved?

So how on earth would it translate [in Attic, I am presuming] as an
imperfect?? I can see it in the future being translated as a future
perfect, but an 'imperfect perfective'? The imperfect, present and
future could be translated "was, is and will be come", but then what to
do with the aorist??

Thanks again for the discussion...


George Blaisdell
Roslyn, WA

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