RE: Ephesians

From: Bill Ross (
Date: Wed Apr 14 1999 - 11:40:12 EDT

>It seems to me that it ought to read:
> "In grace are you, having been saved through faith"

I would think: (1) ESTE SESWiSMENOI is the standard form of the perfect
passive, and

I would have thought that SESWiMENOI is the standard form. Am I correct that
it is unusual to put ESTE before a perfect passive? Wouldn't SESWiSMENOI
have done the trick? What is the significance of ESTE here?

Do you approve of "having been saved" to represent SESWiSMENOI?

And does the present indicative agree with the perfect passive particple?

Is there compelling grammatical reason to take XARITI as the indirect object
of SESWiMENOI as opposed to being the indirect object of ESTE?

(2) although CARITI as an instrumental dative is perfectly intelligible with
ESTE SESWiSMENOI, there's no way I can see to make it construe with a simple
ESTE except as a dative of possession, which would have to imply, I think,
that CARITI is a
person, "You belong to someone named 'Grace.'" "You are in (a state of)
grace" is perfectly intelligible English, but I do not think CARITI ESTE is
intelligible Greek.

How do you read Romans 8:24a


By hope? In hope? I realize that this is aorist, but here's how the dative
is commonly translated:

For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who
hopes for what he already has?
For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who
hopes for what he sees?
For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man
seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
For we have been saved in hope; but hope seen is not hope; for what any one
sees, why does he also hope?
for in hope we were saved, and hope beheld is not hope; for what any one
doth behold, why also doth he hope for [it]?

I don't know the technical word for this use of the dative, but what
grammatically stands in the way of ESTE having XARITI as the direct object
in the sense of "in?" Is it just too unusual and unexpected in your

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