Re: 1 Kg. 15:13 ( LXX query )

From: Maurice A. O'Sullivan (
Date: Thu Jun 03 1999 - 07:57:23 EDT

At 12:47 02/06/99 -0700, wrote:

>Interesting thought. But the word also can mean just about any kind
>of gathering or coming together, according to Liddell & Scott; and in
>particular to gatherings for festal purposes; and it can even mean
>sexual intercourse, which given the pagan overtones of the "ALSOS" (=
>asherah) might be what the translator had in mind also.
>Any corroborating evidence for any of it?

Many thanks for that pointer -- and since the listing by Lust of the
meaning "conjunction" (of months) in Dt. points towards the domain of
I connected to Perseus ( my aging eyes can spot things a lot faster on my
screen than in the hard copy of Great Scott ) and found:

5. = sunousi/a , sexual intercourse, Arist.HA541a31,
                    Clearch.49, Ph.1.148, Plu.Lyc. 15, Gal.15.47

Then, in a private posting, one suggestion made to me was:

>>I think she "gathered a meeting in her grove", thereby worshipping Astarte
(whose worship was usually under a tree, on a high place). LXX also has
EXEKOPSEN TAS KATADYSEIS AUTHS (her "hidden places"?) where RSV (& M.T.)
have "cut down her IMAGE".
Seems that LXX highlights the PLACE rather than the cult-OBJECT.<<

That information on Astarte is useful, and is what I originally had in mind
in asking for classical allusions. Even more useful, though, is the
reminder to look at the rest of the verse ( ignoring the remote context is
one thing, but I really should be ashamed of myself for ignoring the
immediate context of the other half-verse <g> )

But when we do look at the rest of the verse, the question then is:
what is the meaning of KATADUSIS, especially when governed by KATAKOPTW?

What jumped out at me when checking LSJ was this;

III. present world (as subject to decline), Aq.Ps.16(17).14,
                    IDEM=Aq., Sm.Ps.48(49).2; so of human life, Aq.Ps.38
                    (au=Aq. Ps. 39).au=Aq. Ps. 6.

and for KATAKOPTW,
Lust gives the general meaning of 'cut off, cut down' and notes that in 2
Macc., admittedly in the passive, it means ' to kill, slay '

Given that we started out this quest in the special world of LXX Greek, am
I right, do you think, in appealing to Aq and Sm examples above, that
KATADUSIS means "life" i.e she was killed and dumped in the Kedron Valley
for what she did?

Perhaps someone on the list with access to TLG might care to search for the
combination of KATADUSIS and KATAKOPTW?


Maurice A. O'Sullivan [ Bray, Ireland ]

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