Re: Why an instantaneous imperfect in Mark 8:24?

From: Moon-Ryul Jung (
Date: Sun Jun 27 1999 - 07:46:22 EDT

Moon wrote:
> > I would take the hOTI clause as a sort of noun clause, which defines what the person is
> > seeing. So I would have:
> >
> > I see men that I perceive [them] walking like trees.
Daniel replies:

> Yes, I would agree: the "defining" or limiting activity is precisely what the relative
> pronoun does. You have used the English "that," while I used "which"; in either case, we
> have a relative pronoun governing the clause.
My rendering above is misleading. What I meant was that here the use of
"that" is similar to the use of "that" in sentences like
"I see that you are a good man". Here "that" is a particle that
converts a sentence into a noun clause. No Greek grammars that
I have read indicated that hOTI can be used as a relative pronound.
So, I was forced to render the verse as:

I see men "that I perceive them_walking like trees".
That clause defines the content of the seeing.

Moon-Ryul Jung
Assistant Professor
Soongsil Univ.
Seoul, Korea

si iNo, my rendering above what I meant was that hOTI introduces a whole
> > Here I take the particiciple as predicative not as attributive, following Carl's well
> > argued thesis.
> I agree, here. My translation in the first response to Jay Adkins was a bit "off the
> cuff." I was at that point attempting more to capture the tenor of the dialogue, than the
> exact syntax. Of course, the use of the participle was not being discussed, yet. Perhaps
> more along the following line: "Looking up, he was saying 'I am seeing men, which I
> perceive walking [but] like trees.'"
> --
> Daniel L. Christiansen
> Department of Bible
> Multnomah Bible College
> 8435 NE Glisan Street
> Portland, OR 97220
> (Also Portland Bible College, Prof of Biblical Languages)
> e-mail:

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