Date: Mon Oct 18 1999 - 12:24:40 EDT
Since Carl has asked that we terminate the lengthy discussion on
this, I would encourage you to read the previous posts. This has
been answered in those posts.
If you can't find them, email me privately.
On Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:09:02 -0500 "Bob Wilkin" <email@example.com>
> This is my first reply to a post, so I'm not sure how to format it.
> My remarks are first. That which I am responding to follows.
> If porneia "cannot be adultery or prostitution," then what can it be
> in the case of a married person whose marriage had been consummated?
> And why did the Lord use porneia in this context in such a confined
> meaning? Does not porneia typically include all sexual sin (e.g.,
> 1 Cor 5:1; Acts 15:29)? Why not use moicheia here if adultery were
> the only possibility. Indeed, if only a special type of adultery,
> before marriage is consummated, is meant, why is this not explained
> when the question asked is clearly not dealing with divorce before a
> marriage was consummated?
> Porneia occurs once in Matthew besides the two exception clauses, in
> 15:19. There it is preceded by moicheia, clearly distinguishing the
> two. What does porneia mean there? Shouldn't we give careful
> consideration to its meaning in 15:19 in forming our view of its
> meaning in 5:32 and 19:9?
> Bob Wilkin
> Grace Evangelical School of Theology
> Subject: Re: porneia
> From: firstname.lastname@example.org
> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 22:58:18 -0700
> X-Message-Number: 3
> On Sat, 16 Oct 1999 21:15:58 -0700 "Michael Abernathy"
> <email@example.com> writes:
> > Paul Dixon said porneia "cannot be adultery or prostitution, since
> > the lawful punishment for such is death by stoning." You might
> > to reconsider this argument. There is substantial evidence that
> > during the New Testament period divorce, not stoning, was the
> > consequence of adultery (See. Markus Bockmuehl's article "Matthew
> > 5.32; 19.9 in the Light of Pre-Rabinnic Halakhah" New Testament
> > Studies vol. 35, 1989, pp. 291-295). Also consider Joseph's
> > divorce of Mary upon finding that she was pregnant.
> It may be the case that divorce, not stoning, was the usual
> of adultery during the NT period, but that is irrelevant. The
> by the Pharisees was, is it lawful (EI EZESTIN, Mt 19:3)? NT
> has no bearing upon it.
> Nor does Joseph's plan to put Mary away (APOLUSAI, Mt 1:19) have any
> bearing upon this, even if he was a DIKAIOS ANHR. The fact that he
> was a righteous man is better explained by his desire not to make
> a public spectacle of her (MH QELWN ANTHN DEIGMATISAI), rather
> than as a commentary that his behavior was lawful.
> But, even if his behavior is lawful, we still have the case of a man
> is engaged to be married, and not yet lawfully married. There has
> been no consummation. Is this not an altogether different ballgame?
> Someone asks about Jn 7:53-8:11 and the woman taken in adultery.
> This was another setup. The Pharisees wanted to trap Jesus. Their
> thinking, of course, was that she should be stoned to death in line
> with the OT law. They said, "Now Moses in the law commanded that
> such should be stoned. But what do you say?" (8:5).
> His answer is not to deny the law, but to show their failure to
> the law in the execution of it. "He who is without sin among you,
> him throw a stone at her first" (v. 7). This comes from Deut 13:9;
> His forgiveness of the woman, of course, is exemplary. He, like
> was merciful, and we ought to be. If a man's wife commits adultery
> he ought to be merciful and willing to forgive her. But, again,
> this is
> not the
> question. The question is not, should we be merciful. It is:
> the OT, is it lawful for a man to put away his wife because of
> The answer, according to the law, is that she should be stoned to
> death for adultery. There is no apparent provision for divorce for
> adultery, and if there were there would appear to be contradiction
> within the law.
> Paul Dixon
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