Re: Ign. Eph. 15:3 (fwd)

From: Bart Ehrman (
Date: Tue Jan 04 2000 - 08:28:12 EST

   Glad *you* love them. :-)

   Responses seriatim, below.

On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Carl W. Conrad wrote:

> At 11:22 AM -0500 1/3/00, Bart Ehrman wrote:
> > At the end of Ign. Eph. 15:3 we ready FANHSETAI PRO PROSWPOU hMWN, EX
> >hWN DIKAIWS AGAPWMEN AUTON. "He/It will be made manifest before our face
> >(i.e., he will be revealed to us OR it will be made clear to us)..." But
> >then what do you make of the plural relative hWN following the
> >preposition EX?
> I love these puzzles you keep throwing at us. One thought that comes to my
> mind immediately is that EX hWN is one of those prepositional phrases
> introducing a clause wherein antecedent is implicitly squeezed into the
> relative, so that we should understand something like EKEINA/TAUTA EX hWN
> DIKAIWS AGAPWMEN AUTON, which could conceivably be the subject of FANHSETAI
> PRO PROSWPOU hHMWN; hence: "Those factors in consequence of which we
> rightly love him will be manifested before us." i.e. perhaps the subject of
> FANHSETAI is NOT Christ but rather the relative clause as a substantive.
> (Well, it seemed worth trying ...)

   Yes, this was the direction I was heading as well, understanding the
relative to contain an implied demonstrative. But I thought it would
probably be looking forward instead of back in the sentence; there's
already a clear subject for FANHSETAI -- actually two possibly clear
subjects (!). The preceding sentence is "Let us therefore do all things
while (because?) he is dwelling in us, that we might be his temples and he
might be our God in us, which very thing he is." KAI FANHSEAI PRO
PROSWPOU hHMWN.... So the subject is either "God" (He will be manifest
to us) or the verb is impersonal ("It/This will be made clear to
us...). It would seem to be stretching it to have the implied
demonstrative in EX hWN be the subject.

   My initial impulse had been to take the demonstrative to refer to
things "done uprightly" as acts of love, so that the clause EX hWN DIKAIWS
AGAPWMMEN AUTON would loosely be rendered something like "by the upright
deeds that we do out of love for him" Sometimes this seems to get the
sense right for me; other times not. Problems with it: it takes DIKAIWS
not with AGAPWMEN, as one would expect, but with some kind of implied verb
("do") relating to the EX hWN; and it would leave the relationship of that
verb to AGAPWMEN uncertain. (This means, I think, that it has difficulty
accounting for the relationship of just about all the words in the clause
:-)) So I don't know if this works or not.

   Further reflections?

> Alternatively (I obviously don't have the larger context PRO PROSWPOU MOU),
> is there anything in the preceding text that could provide an antecedent to
> hWN? It could be neuter plural even if relatively vague.

   The only plurals (apart from "us") in the preceding (quoted above) are
"all things" (let us do all things) and "temples" (that we might be his
temples); both seem too remote to be of much use.

   Thanks for your thoughts. Any others would be welcome!

-- Bart

Bart D. Ehrman
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics/Washington University
> One Brookings Drive/St. Louis, MO, USA 63130/(314) 935-4018
> Home: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314) 726-5649
> WWW:

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