Date: Mon Mar 06 2000 - 14:48:47 EST
On Mon, 6 Mar 2000 11:32:2 "Bob Wilkin" <firstname.lastname@example.org> writes:
> The idea that there are two types of faith in the NT is hard to
> grasp. Let's take the example cited here, of John 20. It is suggested
> the disciples experienced true, saving, regenerating faith after the
It is suggested, according to Jn 20:8-9, that the disciples did
not believe that Jesus must die and rise from the dead, since
OUDEPW GAR HDEISAN THN GRAFHN hOT DEI AUTON EK
NEKRWN ANASTHNAI (for as yet they understood not the scripture
that He must rise from the dead).
> This view doesn't fit the Gospel of John. According to John 13:10,
> "You are already clean," applied to all of the disciples except Judas
> noted in John 13:10). According to John 2:11, "His disciples believed
> Him." (And according to John 3:16, all who do that have eternal life.)
Yes, good point. The content of their PISTIS apparently did change.
> Pisteuw in the NT is like believe in English in that it has an
> object. There are myriads of things/people that can be believed. But
> of believing is one and the same.
The question is not the content or object of faith; it is whether there
is such a thing as faith EIS or EN Christ not associated with
Is it possible to believe in vain (1 Cor 15:2), which seems to suggest
a faith not associated with regeneration? Jn 2:23-24 and Jn 5:44/
8:39ff, and James 2 seem to suggest that some PISTEUOUSIN
but do not have regeneration and eternal life.
We might even add Jn 15:2 PAN KLHMA EN EMOI ..., though
PISTEUW is not cited there.
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