From: Edward Hobbs (EHOBBS@WELLESLEY.EDU)
Date: Tue Mar 21 2000 - 11:08:15 EST
From: IN%"firstname.lastname@example.org" "clayton stirling bartholomew" 20-MAR-2000 20:50:21.18
To: IN%"EHOBBS@WELLESLEY.EDU" "Edward Hobbs"
Subj: RE: Causal meaning of EIS in NT?
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Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:49:43 -0800
From: clayton stirling bartholomew <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Subject: Re: Causal meaning of EIS in NT?
To: Edward Hobbs <EHOBBS@WELLESLEY.EDU>
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on 03/20/00 2:45 PM, Edward Hobbs wrote:
Thanks for the clarification. I suspected that there was something about
Mantey's "Causal EIS" that didn't meet the eye so to speak.
BTW, I got your reply in private but didn't see it on b-greek.
Did you want to send it to b-greek.
> Clay's response to my forwarded post from the archives is quite right.
> But it does not bear on Mantey's "Causal EIS". Mantey means by that
> term, that EIS means "because of"---"a baptism of repentance BECAUSE OF
> the remission of sins." I.e., AFTER your sins are remitted, you THEN get
> baptized by John.
> "Causal EIS" is an ambiguous term; Clay's sense is a correct application of
> the term, but Mantey's is ungrounded in any Greek texts known to me.
> Edward Hobbs
> ---------------Clay wrote-------->>>>>>>>
>> What do the B-Greekers think about the preposition EIS and its
>> possible causal meaning in the New Testament Greek? There was some
>> debate about the matter (pro and contra) at the beginning of the
>> fifties in the Journal of Biblical Literature. There are some
>> seemingly clear examples of a causal sense of EIS in the NT: e. g. not
>> only EIS TI in Mt 14:31 and Mk 15:34, but also EIS TOUTO in Mk 1:38.
>> But N. Turner in Moulton's Grammar of New Testament Greek, vol. III,
>> p. 266s., is skeptical.
>> Ladislav Tich=FD
>> Faculty of theology
>> Palack=FD University
>> Czech Republic
> Edwards post on this prompted me to do some looking into the question. Louw
> and Nida (89.48) have this to say about EIS & EN as a markers of causation:
> EIS & EN : markers of result, with the probable implication of a preceding
> process =8B =8Cwith the result that, so that as a result, to cause.=B9
> .. . .snip. . .
> It would be possible to interpret EIS =8A AGW in Ro 2:4 as being purely an
> expression of cause since AGW (see 36.1) also involves a component of
> cause, and therefore one may interpret the expression EIS METNOIAN SE AGEI
> as =8Cit causes you to repent.=B9 In either case, however, EIS marks a
> event or state . . .
> This is not really a counter example since AGW may include the notion of
> causation and EIS may simply (only) mark a resulting event or state. Howeve=
> it is another aspect of this question worth looking at.
> -- =20
> Clayton Stirling Bartholomew
> Three Tree Point
> P.O. Box 255 Seahurst WA 98062
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