Re: Jude 7 ("eternal fire")

From: Steven Lo Vullo (doulos@chorus.net)
Date: Tue Mar 21 2000 - 18:04:28 EST


<x-charset iso-8859-1>Jason,

I now see what you mean. When I first looked at it, I thought your focus was
on the word "They." In looking at the Greek, and comparing it with other
translations, the NIV translation does seem odd. It would be interesting to
learn their rationale, or to hear from people on the list who may have some
ideas about this.

Steve LoVullo
Madison, WI

----- Original Message -----
From: Jason Hare <parousia_occ@yahoo.com>
To: Steven Lo Vullo <doulos@chorus.net>
Cc: Biblical Greek <b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 1:45 AM
Subject: Re: Jude 7 ("eternal fire")

> Indeed, you are right, but what does the "those" refer
> to? It says that they (Sodom, Gomorrah & the other
> cities) serve as an example of THOSE WHO WILL SUFFER
> THE PUNISHMENT OF ETERNAL FIRE. This would make it
> seem as if Sodom and Gomorrah are only an example of
> fire and did not themselves under the punishment of
> eternal fire. In actuality, the Greek says that Sodom
> and Gomorrah underwent that very punishment. It has a
> lot to do with how people interpret what "eternal
> fire" means. And I think the NIV committee shaded
> this reference. The KJV, NKJV, RSV, Amplified, and SO
> MANY others tranlated it correctly, but the NIV hid
> what it really said. I like the NIV most of the time,
> but this time it really disappoints me.
>
> Jason Hare
> Ozark Christian College
> parousia_occ@yahoo.com
>
> --- Steven Lo Vullo <doulos@chorus.net> wrote:
> > Jason,
> >
> > As far as I can tell, the "They" in Jude 7b of the
> > NIV does in fact refer to
> > the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah.
> >
> > Steve LoVullo
> > Madison, WI
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Jason Hare <parousia_occ@yahoo.com>
> > To: Biblical Greek <b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> > Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 5:26 PM
> > Subject: Jude 7 ("eternal fire")
> >
> >
> > > In the NIV, the portion about Sodom and Gomorrah
> > says:
> > >
> > > ´In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the
> > surrounding towns gave
> > > themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion.
> > They serve as an
> > > example of those who suffer the punishment of
> > eternal fire.ª
> > >
> > > The Greek has:
> > >
> > > ´hWS SODOMA KAI GOMORRA KAI hAI PERI AUTAS POLEIS
> > TON hOMOION TROPON
> > > TOUTOIS EKPORNEUSASAI KAI APELQOUSAI OPISW SARKOS
> > hETERAS, PROKEINTAI
> > > DEIGMA PUROS AIWNIOU DIKHN hUPECOUSAI.ª
> > >
> > > Do you think it was a purposeful mistranslation
> > for them to translate it
> > > like this? They make it sound as though the Greek
> > does not mean that
> > Sodom
> > > and Gomorrah suffered "eternal fire." But the
> > Greek has "these" in the
> > > masculine plural (referring to false teachers) and
> > "undergoing judgment of
> > > eternal fire" in the feminine plural (referring to
> > hAI POLEIS, "the
> > > cities"). In other words, this verse says that
> > Sodom and Gomorrah and the
> > > surrounding cities underwent the judgment of
> > eternal fire and serve as an
> > > example. Would you agree that the NIV is messed?
> > >
> > > One other thing: PROKEINTAI KEIGMA PUROS AIWNIOU
> > DIKHN hUPECOUSAI. "They
> > > serve an example of eternal fire, by undergoing a
> > punishment" or "They
> > > serve an example by undergoing a punishment of
> > eternal fire." I think the
> > > second is more correct. What do you?
> > >
> > > Please carbon copy responses to me, as I do not
> > get online as much
> > > recently. I don't have time right now. Thanks.
> > >
> > > Jason Hare
> > > Ozark Christian College
> > > parousia_occ@yahoo.com
> > >
> > > ---
> > > B-Greek home page: http://sunsite.unc.edu/bgreek
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
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