From: Dan Parker (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Fri Jun 09 2000 - 08:58:39 EDT
> "B.J. Williamson" wrote:
> > Mikael,
> > You wrote:
> > >1 Thess 4:16b, 17:
> > >KAI OI NEKROI EN KRISTW ANASTHSONTAI PRWTON (17) EPEITA hHMEIS OI ZWNTES OI
> > >PERILEIPOMENOI, hAMA SUN AUTOIS hARPAGHSOMEQA EN NEFELAIS EIS APANTHSIN TOU
> > >KURIOU EIS
> > >AERA; KAI hOUTW PANTOTE SUN KURIW ESOMEQA.
> > >
> > >In some translations I find "hAMA" translated with "at the same time" and
> > >some with
> > >"together (with)". At least one of the latter also has "at the same time"
> > >in a
> > >footnote, but even so many who use this translation insist on that the
> > >"together"
> > >(hAMA) refers to 'being together with Christ'. Trying to understand the
> > >text myself,
> > >and looking at all the translations I can find, I can't understand it in
> > >any other way
> > >than this:
> > >That it is the hARPAGHSOMEQA that is to occur to OI NEKROI EN KRISTW and OI
> > >ZWNTES OI
> > >PERILEIPOMENOI at the same time, together.
> > >Or does the text permit understanding it differently?
> > The first concept of being "together" hAMA SUN AUTOIS does indeed mean as
> > you have concluded. Both the hAMA and SUN denote "together."
> > But of course, in the same breath, Paul says KAI hOUTW PANTOTE SUN KURIW
> > ESOMEQA. So here is the concept of "together" (SUN) mentioned again. But
> > this time "together with the Lord."
> > Therefore, No. The first reference to "together" is not a reference to our
> > being together "with the Lord." That idea is expressed at the end of the
> > verse (KAI hOUTW PANTOTE SUN KURIW ESOMEQA).
> Well, my question maybe wasn't clear enough:
> Does the text permit the idea that some of the mentioned go to heaven before the
> others? Or does it say that they go at the same time, together?
> Regards, Mikael Persson
It seems clear that they are SUN KURIW ESOMEQA at the same time. This is the
same phrase found at Philippians 1:23 (SUN XRISTO EINAI), which also has as it's reference the resurrection to come.
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