[b-greek] THREAD CLOSED: 1 Tim 2:12 & AUQENTEIN

From: Carl W. Conrad (cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu)
Date: Mon Aug 14 2000 - 08:17:45 EDT

<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<html><head><style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { margin-top: 0 ; margin-bottom: 0 }
 --></style><title>THREAD CLOSED: 1 Tim 2:12 &amp;
<div>To all B-Greekers:</div>
<div>The thread originally marked by the subject-header, &quot;1 Tim.
2:12, meaning of AUQENTEIN&quot; is now closed; please let us have no
more messages on this subject at the time.</div>
<div>The passage in question has always been one of the two or three
most contentious Biblical texts dealt with on B-Greek, so much so
that I have always had apprehensions about the course of a new thread
on it whenever it arises, as it always seems to arise again, two or
three times a year or even more frequently; the last such thread was
in October of 1999, and list-members are welcome to consult the
archives for that or earlier threads. I recall with a curious mixture
of nostalgia and regret my participation in one of those
<div>At 4:07 PM -0400 5/18/98, Carl W. Conrad wrote:</div>
&gt;I don't wish to renew a debate of yesteryear, but I would just
&gt;attention, for the sake of those who wnder what women on the list
&gt;have to say about this, and for those who might like to review
it, to the<br>
&gt;correspondence on our list in November and December of 1995--I
think it's<br>
&gt;all there in the archives. I should note that this was before
there were<br>
&gt;list rules and enforcement of civil discourse (&quot;There was no
king in Israel<br>
&gt;in those days: everyone did what was right in his/her own
eyes&quot;). In late<br>
&gt;November there was a knock-down/drag'em-out battle over the Junia
&gt;in Rom 16:7 (subject header: &quot;Re: Junia/Junias
nochmals&quot;), and the<br>
&gt;resolution of this was followed on December 2 by a post by Jim
&gt;entitled &quot;Women elders and apostles,&quot; which was the
trigger that made the<br>
&gt;stuff hit the fan. Jim McGuire called up the relevance of the
passage in 1<br>
&gt;Timothy 2:11ff. I and some others responded at length. In the
midst of it<br>
&gt;all a truly heroic Ellen Adams spoke out (although her user name
was &quot;Mike<br>
&gt;Adams&quot;). We haven't heard from Ellen for a long time now,
and I miss her; I</div>
<div>&gt;know that for a while she and Mike were acting in a pastoral
role in a</div>
<div>&gt;rural church outside of Denver and she frequently sought
advice from our</div>
<div>&gt;list on interpretation of crucial passages. [I did have a
nice note from Ellen last Christmas, I may note.]</div>
<div>I think that our list-members hold widely-divergent views on the
status and legitimate role of women in the church; I dare say that
the view each of us holds--quite regardless of where it falls on the
spectrum--is shaped by powerful Biblical understandings. The problem
is that our Biblical understandings are themselves widely divergent.
This is the reason why our FAQ says:</div>
<div>&quot;<font color="#000000">Respectful discourse: Those who
participate in the conference represent a wide range of theological
and denominational perspectives, perhaps even including some whose
interests are purely academic.&nbsp; Deep religious convictions
surely characterize many, perhaps most, of the list-participants, and
some of these convictions bear directly upon how the Biblical text is
to be understood. At the core of our discussion, however, is not what
our convictions are but what the Greek text may legitimately be
understood to mean. If discussion of this nature is to succeed,
proper respect and courtesy to other list members is important.&nbsp;
While scholarly debate, including disagreement, is encouraged as a
goal of this conference, attacks upon the character, intelligence, or
faith of those participating are not acceptable. Criticism must focus
upon the arguments of others; it may not be directed to the
individual.&nbsp; Those who violate this policy will be contacted
politely by the B-Greek staff and requested to conform to these
guidelines.&nbsp; Those who continue to violate the policy will no
longer be welcome in the conference.</font>&quot;</div>
<div>Although the FAQ does not yet explicitly say so, it implies and
list-moderators have repeatedly stated that B-Greek message should
avoid raising theological doctrines or hermeneutical positions
whether to defend or to attack them. I would be inclined to say that
the present thread has evoked the doctrinal and hermeneutical demons
in substantial measure, although I suspect that those deeply engaged
in the discussion would dispute that assertion.</div>
<div>My own view is that the current thread became unwieldy and
incapable of sustaining in a civil fashion as soon as the position
was taken that there is one and only one conceivable right way of
understanding 1 Tim 2:12 and that this one and only right way must be
defended. Appeals to ways of understanding other NT passages on the
proper role of women as keys to understanding this one and appeals to
traditional ecclesiastical interpretation of 1 Tim 2:12 left the
simpler question behind: &quot;what does the Greek text of 1 Tim 2:12
actually say and does that text allow for alternative
interpretations? Once the question of what the Greek must mean was
left behind, the domains of hermeneutics and theological doctrine
came into play and the lines had been crossed which the
list-leadership have agreed to enforce.</div>
<div>I hope that is enough by way of explanation of the closure now
brought to the current thread on this passage. Participants in the
discussion are free, of course, to continue their discussions of the
passage, but not publicly on B-Greek.</div>

<div>-- <br>
Carl W. Conrad<br>
Co-Chair, B-Greek List<br>
Department of Classics, Washington University<br>
One Brookings Drive/St. Louis, MO, USA 63130/(314) 935-4018<br>
Home: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314) 726-5649<br>
cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu OR cwconrad@ioa.com<br>
WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/>

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Sat Apr 20 2002 - 15:36:33 EDT